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 Grunt13 wrote:
Also the galactic wide warp storms were not due to eldar behavior but a natural/daemonic phenomena (IIRC). The fall cleared the storms away giving relatively safe warp travel to the other races.

Incorrect...the fluff regarding the Fall implies that the Warp Storms were the 'birth pains' of Slaanesh.

Humanity is the main source of fuel for the chaos gods, the HH books implied that wiping out the human race would reduce the galactic threat of chaos significantly.

The nature of the Warp is such that even if Humans were destroyed, and the three Powers were destroyed with them, would probably result in creating a more nightmarish set of chaotic deities.

To contrast, one of the first things the imperium did when they discovered the emergent tau was schedule their species destruction. Nearly every species humanity wiped out during its reign is an alien race the eldar left alone. When looking at the two races from the perspective of an outsider(a non-human, non-eldar species), it would be fairly clear who gets the medal for most benign empire.

After Mankind's experiences in the Old Night, its not really unjustified.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Grunt13 wrote:

Humanity is the main source of fuel for the chaos gods, the HH books implied that wiping out the human race would reduce the galactic threat of chaos significantly.

The nature of the Warp is such that even if Humans were destroyed, and the three Powers were destroyed with them, would probably result in creating a more nightmarish set of chaotic deities.

Conveniently, the birth of Slaanesh (instead of some other "more nightmarish chaotic deity") is a bad thing.

To contrast, one of the first things the imperium did when they discovered the emergent tau was schedule their species destruction. Nearly every species humanity wiped out during its reign is an alien race the eldar left alone. When looking at the two races from the perspective of an outsider(a non-human, non-eldar species), it would be fairly clear who gets the medal for most benign empire.

After Mankind's experiences in the Old Night, its not really unjustified.

It is. It's as far away from justice as it can get. Unless punching an old lady in the street is justified by being hit by a bully 20 years ago.

 Grunt13 wrote:
As a species the eldar do have their flaws, but when compared to humanity they are saints. Humanity has been the chief galactic super power for the last 10,000 years; the eldar were in that position for millions of years. They spared humanity and the other races from persecution despite being in a situation where they could have wiped them out easily. To contrast, one of the first things the imperium did when they discovered the emergent tau was schedule their species destruction. Nearly every species humanity wiped out during its reign is an alien race the eldar left alone. When looking at the two races from the perspective of an outsider(a non-human, non-eldar species), it would be fairly clear who gets the medal for most benign empire.

This is basically the answer to who is the "worst one" here.
I'd go even further and say that it may be true for some human worlds. At least they may have avoided getting conquered, pacified, forced to change religion, their planet transformed into meatshields-breeding hive world and stripped from all resources. Living next to the Eldar there is a high chance they would be just ignored as "inferior apes".

Plus the eldar actually go out and do good for the galaxy, and even if it serves their long term interest; that is a lot more than the imperium does. More so than any other race in 40K (tau, necron, assortment of minor races).

1) Numerous warnings given to humanity about chaos, tyranids, and necrons that go completely ignored because the eldar are filthy xenos. Ichar was one example where the eldar went to the planetary governor and told him that a huge hive fleet was heading toward his planet and he should call in aid from the imperium. They were ignored so they had to invade the planet themselves to put Ichar on a war footing just so the planet could survive the tyranids.

2) The Interex in HH false gods. They benefited greatly from eldar guidance - showing that eldar tolerated humans as a species and would even foster them as long as they were relatively peaceful and xeno tolerant.

3) The cabal - eldar were involved with a massive cooperative multi-xeno effort against chaos.

4) Human colonist were actually saved by eldar corsairs who transported the humans via stasis chambers to another world to live on (2nd edition fluff).

5) Path of the Warrior: Main character shows empathy to humans and regrets loss of human life.

The thing I find most striking about the Craftworld dwelling Eldar is that they are a repentant group of Eldar. Some of them used to participate in the pleasure cults and the things that brought about the fall. And then realized it was wrong and changed their ways.

The Imperium in it's current state has done no such thing. The people in command in the Imperium know what they are doing is wrong. They know it isn't good for humanity, but it is the only solution they can think of to keep their race alive.

To me this makes the Imperium more tragic than the fall of the Eldar.

 Macok wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:


After Mankind's experiences in the Old Night, its not really unjustified.

It is. It's as far away from justice as it can get. Unless punching an old lady in the street is justified by being hit by a bully 20 years ago.

Being bullied is very different from getting oppressed and enslaved by aliens resulting in an entire species of xenophobes.

Living next to the Eldar there is a high chance they would be just ignored as "inferior apes".

Racial discrimination is more often than not the start of slavery and oppression.

 Grunt13 wrote:
Plus the eldar actually go out and do good for the galaxy, and even if it serves their long term interest; that is a lot more than the imperium does.

Thank you for proving my point - Eldar are just as self-centered as Humans, just that the methods are different.

3) The cabal - eldar were involved with a massive cooperative multi-xeno effort against chaos.

And intended to destroy the Human species - and their vision has proven flawed, seeing as even with the Alpha Legion's assistance, Horus was still defeated. Who's to say that had Horus won, Chaos would truly have been defeated, or a worse set of deities would have created by Mankind's successors as the dominant species.

4) Human colonist were actually saved by eldar corsairs who transported the humans via stasis chambers to another world to live on (2nd edition fluff).

A rare individual case.

5) Path of the Warrior: Main character shows empathy to humans and regrets loss of human life.

As much as a pre-Civil War overlord regrets the death of 'inferiors'.

Roadkill Zombie wrote:



To me this makes the Imperium more tragic than the fall of the Eldar.

Which is, of course, the whole point of 40k.

 Tadashi wrote:
Being bullied is very different from getting oppressed and enslaved by aliens resulting in an entire species of xenophobes.

And conquering enemies and hostile forces is very different to being genocidal towards peaceful nations.

Racial discrimination is more often than not the start of slavery and oppression.

Not in the case of (Craftworld) Eldar. They don't enslave because they have no need of this. Discrimination (especially Eldar way, by ignoring, not by harming) is not in the same ligue as genocide.

Thank you for proving my point - Eldar are just as self-centered as Humans, just that the methods are different.

Quite true. Like all races in wh40k. However Human methods are much more hostile and destructive towards other races and themselves.

 Macok wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:
Being bullied is very different from getting oppressed and enslaved by aliens resulting in an entire species of xenophobes.

And conquering enemies and hostile forces is very different to being genocidal towards peaceful nations.

This is Warhammer 40,000 - forget the promise of of progress and understanding.

Racial discrimination is more often than not the start of slavery and oppression.

Not in the case of (Craftworld) Eldar. They don't enslave because they have no need of this. Discrimination (especially Eldar way, by ignoring, not by harming) is not in the same ligue as genocide.

The Eldar would gladly sacrifice billions of Human lives just to save a handful of their own...not so different, are we?

Thank you for proving my point - Eldar are just as self-centered as Humans, just that the methods are different.

Quite true. Like all races in wh40k. However Human methods are much more hostile and destructive towards other races and themselves.

What did you expect?

Humans will always be Humans - and Humans will always fear the unknown.

Craftworlders are traders by nature so value non-Eldar life as interesting trade partners.

Interestingly, WD127 specifically states that the Eldar had a primitive evolutionary stage; whatever influence of the Old Ones was there, the early Eldar are not the same as the later Eldar.

One Eldar philosopher regards Orks as the highest culture.

 Daba wrote:


One Eldar philosopher regards Orks as the highest culture.

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

From Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society by Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher

The Eldar are spoiled brats - compared to them, the Orks are the true masterpiece of the Old Ones.

 Tadashi wrote:

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.

From Culture vs. Kultur: Thoughts on Orkish Society by Uthan the Perverse, a controversial Eldar philosopher

The Eldar are spoiled brats - compared to them, the Orks are the true masterpiece of the Old Ones.

Why do you hold so much anger against that faction?

But if you look closely, Eldar and Orks are highly related — although not said, it would make sense the two had a common ancestor. And like Ork bands, Eldar Craftworlds fight each other all the time.

Look even deeper, and Orks and Eldar are more identifiable with than the 'human' factions in the setting, that don't really seem human at all. You have un-relatable supermen with little in common with human living or meat grinder men more akin to a lot of rats than people. The reason why Skaven didn't make the jump into 40k was they were already there all along.

 Daba wrote:

The Eldar are spoiled brats - compared to them, the Orks are the true masterpiece of the Old Ones.

Why do you hold so much anger against that faction?

A good question...probably because they get all the good stuff when we've done more to deserve it than they have. Who does most of the fighting in the galaxy? Humans. Who keeps the Powers back? The Human Emperor. Who imprisoned the most powerful of the C'tan? The Human Emperor. Who has to lose billions (and more) of lives to stop a massive threat? Humans.

And who gave them the right to judge us unfit vermin, when they ripped a hole in reality and created the most perverted deity in existence? They're not so different, and so I spit on their so-called superiority.

Look even deeper, and Orks and Eldar are more identifiable with than the 'human' factions in the setting, that don't really seem human at all. You have un-relatable supermen with little in common with human living or meat grinder men more akin to a lot of rats than people. The reason why Skaven didn't make the jump into 40k was they were already there all along.

I know that, and yet Eldar treat Humans like vermin. Therefore, its only right I return the favor.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Daba wrote:

The Eldar are spoiled brats - compared to them, the Orks are the true masterpiece of the Old Ones.

Why do you hold so much anger against that faction?

A good question...probably because they get all the good stuff when we've done more to deserve it than they have. Who does most of the fighting in the galaxy? Humans. Who keeps the Powers back? The Human Emperor. Who imprisoned the most powerful of the C'tan? The Human Emperor. Who has to lose billions (and more) of lives to stop a massive threat? Humans.

And who gave them the right to judge us unfit vermin, when they ripped a hole in reality and created the most perverted deity in existence? They're not so different, and so I spit on their so-called superiority.

Look even deeper, and Orks and Eldar are more identifiable with than the 'human' factions in the setting, that don't really seem human at all. You have un-relatable supermen with little in common with human living or meat grinder men more akin to a lot of rats than people. The reason why Skaven didn't make the jump into 40k was they were already there all along.

I know that, and yet Eldar treat Humans like vermin. Therefore, its only right I return the favor.

Not all of them do. Eldrad tried to save the imperium of man by warning the Emperor about the impending fall to chaos. Sadly, what he did not expect, was that the primarch he delivered the message to was already tainted.

On multiple occasions in the fluff the Eldar have gone out of their way to try and help humanity. The Imperium however, has at every turn, met the Eldar with nothing but war in mind. Notice that the branches of Humanity that were outside of the imperiums cold reach were taught about chaos and trained to defend against it by the Eldar (Horus Rising). This is something that even the Emperor did not do for his own people.

You should not judge a race by the actions of a few.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:


The Eldar are spoiled brats - compared to them, the Orks are the true masterpiece of the Old Ones.

Why do you hold so much anger against that faction?

A good question...probably because they get all the good stuff when we've done more to deserve it than they have. Who does most of the fighting in the galaxy? Humans. Who keeps the Powers back? The Human Emperor. Who imprisoned the most powerful of the C'tan? The Human Emperor. Who has to lose billions (and more) of lives to stop a massive threat? Humans.

And who gave them the right to judge us unfit vermin, when they ripped a hole in reality and created the most perverted deity in existence? They're not so different, and so I spit on their so-called superiority.

The Eldar potentially fought in the largest battle the Universe and you're moaning that they don't deserve what the Old Ones awarded to them? The Orks might be in exactly the same standing if they hadn't had lost the Brain Boyz, their technology in tractor beams and force shields is unrivaled, in old fluff at least.

And to say that Mankind fights the most is ludicrous, Mankind squabbles amongst itself as much as they do with other Xenos, at least the Eldar seem to have some form of loyalty, even with their erstwhile kin.

You could argue that Mankind were guilty of giving us three Chaos Gods to the Eldars one, regardless of what the intention of the Emperor was. The Eldar were the true inheritors to the Galaxy but they let their own self importance get the better of them, which is exactly what will happen to the Imperium and the Eldar can see it taking root.

Your argument of who gives them the right to judge mankind is fair I guess, but what gave the Emperor the right to declare the great crusade and wipe out countless Xenos Species and lord knows how many human colonies that could not be bought to heel?

 Tadashi wrote:

 Daba wrote:

Look even deeper, and Orks and Eldar are more identifiable with than the 'human' factions in the setting, that don't really seem human at all. You have un-relatable supermen with little in common with human living or meat grinder men more akin to a lot of rats than people. The reason why Skaven didn't make the jump into 40k was they were already there all along.

I know that, and yet Eldar treat Humans like vermin. Therefore, its only right I return the favor.

You know Eldar personally do you

 Tadashi wrote:

A good question...probably because they get all the good stuff when we've done more to deserve it than they have. Who does most of the fighting in the galaxy?
Humans.

Orks disagree.

Who keeps the Powers back? The Human Emperor.

It's arguable whether that even does anything, and is very possible what the Emperor strengthened them with the crusade and made the Galaxy full of war from his actions on the first place.

Who imprisoned the most powerful of the C'tan? The Human Emperor.

It wasn't even clear if that's what happened, and it had been crippled by the Eldar talismans before so all he did was imprison an already defeated beast if he did it at all.

Who has to lose billions (and more) of lives to stop a massive threat? Humans.

Massive threats against who? All factions fight their enemies; some do it more effectively than others.

And who gave them the right to judge us unfit vermin, when they ripped a hole in reality and created the most perverted deity in existence? They're not so different, and so I spit on their so-called superiority.

The people who say this are captured and tortured outcasts, and does not represent the race as a whole. In 2nd edition, there were examples of Eldar appreciating Imperial art, and in another they did not like the way the human enemies were throwing their own lives away with suicide bombs.

On the other hand, the ranger was being tortured to death; of course he is going to bite back at his captors.

I know that, and yet Eldar treat Humans like vermin. Therefore, its only right I return the favor.

The point is that the 'humans' in 40k aren't very identifiable as humans. It isn't the Eldar who treat them like vermin but their own kind! The Orks are a horde faction, but all full bodied Orks are there because they want to be, not because they are ordered or brainwashed to be there.

 Amanax wrote:


Not all of them do.

Funny...last I looked, before Eldrad got his, he once said he would gladly see the Emperor and all of Mankind dead. Good luck with that, seeing as without the old man holding them back (which he probably did even back when the elder three woke up in the Dark Ages), the Powers will be free to manifest in reality.

You should not judge a race by the actions of a few.

A few? Say that again when the Eldar as a race stop viewing us as mere vermin.

 Pilau Rice wrote:


The Eldar potentially fought in the largest battle the Universe and you're moaning that they don't deserve what the Old Ones awarded to them? The Orks might be in exactly the same standing if they hadn't had lost the Brain Boyz, their technology in tractor beams and force shields is unrivaled, in old fluff at least.

They forfeited the right to what was given when they damned the galaxy with the curse of Slaanesh.

You could argue that Mankind were guilty of giving us three Chaos Gods to the Eldars one, regardless of what the intention of the Emperor was. The Eldar were the true inheritors to the Galaxy but they let their own self importance get the better of them, which is exactly what will happen to the Imperium and the Eldar can see it taking root.

Not if the Emperor can say anything about it...behold! His final decree in the face of damnation - Terminus...(said in the same way as the Pirate Code)

Your argument of who gives them the right to judge mankind is fair I guess, but what gave the Emperor the right to declare the great crusade and wipe out countless Xenos Species and lord knows how many human colonies that could not be bought to heel?

There was no choice...it was survival or obliteration.

 Tadashi wrote:


You know Eldar personally do you

Give me a piece of fluff wherein they don't look down on Humans, and maybe I'll reconsider.

 Daba wrote:

It's arguable whether that even does anything, and is very possible what the Emperor strengthened them with the crusade and made the Galaxy full of war from his actions on the first place.

Please look at the BRB...it always mentions the Emperor keeping Chaos back.

Who imprisoned the most powerful of the C'tan? The Human Emperor.

It wasn't even clear if that's what happened, and it had been crippled by the Eldar talismans before so all he did was imprison an already defeated beast if he did it at all.

The Void Dragon was undefeated by the Blackstones...and endured for millions of years after the War in Heaven. Seeing as none of the Eldar could seal it, and the Emperor did, I'd say that shows who truly defeated the Void Dragon.

The people who say this are captured and tortured outcasts, and does not represent the race as a whole.

Eldrad would have gladly seen the Emperor and Mankind destroyed...thankfully, the is gone, for which I am for once grateful to a Power of Chaos.

Tadashi wrote:

They forfeited the right to what was given when they damned the galaxy with the curse of Slaanesh.

And Mankind forfeited the right to rule the stars when their actions bought Tzeentch, Nurgle and Khorne to full sentience.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
You could argue that Mankind were guilty of giving us three Chaos Gods to the Eldars one, regardless of what the intention of the Emperor was. The Eldar were the true inheritors to the Galaxy but they let their own self importance get the better of them, which is exactly what will happen to the Imperium and the Eldar can see it taking root.

Not if the Emperor can say anything about it...behold! His final decree in the face of damnation - Terminus...(said in the same way as the Pirate Code)

Am missing your point here.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
Your argument of who gives them the right to judge mankind is fair I guess, but what gave the Emperor the right to declare the great crusade and wipe out countless Xenos Species and lord knows how many human colonies that could not be bought to heel?

There was no choice...it was survival or obliteration.

Really, the Interex seemed to prosper before the Great Crusade reached them, they had built relations with the Eldar and seemed to do just fine, the Auretian Technocracy for another, the Isstvanians, the Diasporex, all conquered because the Emperor was blind to tolerance with Xenos.

 Pilau Rice wrote:


They forfeited the right to what was given when they damned the galaxy with the curse of Slaanesh.

Not really...its not like we deliberately brought them into existence...the pre-Fall Eldar (or some of them) sought to create a 'god' who would allow them to live in endless pleasure. Ironic, as it turned out.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Not if the Emperor can say anything about it...behold! His final decree in the face of damnation - Terminus...(said in the same way as the Pirate Code)

Am missing your point here.

My point is that the Emperor's has a trump card of his own in case we go the way of the Eldar.

Really, the Interex seemed to prosper before the Great Crusade reached them, they had built relations with the Eldar and seemed to do just fine, the Auretian Technocracy for another, the Isstvanians, the Diasporex, all conquered because the Emperor was blind to tolerance with Xenos.

And what about the rest of Mankind?

 Tadashi wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:


They forfeited the right to what was given when they damned the galaxy with the curse of Slaanesh.

Not really...its not like we deliberately brought them into existence...the pre-Fall Eldar (or some of them) sought to create a 'god' who would allow them to live in endless pleasure. Ironic, as it turned out.

Still, we did, you said yourself only some of the Eldar wanted that outcome. Are the actions of the few enough to tarnish a whole race with the same brush? Humans might not have been worshiping Khorne or the others directly but there have been deities with the same characteristics worshiped for centuries, just Khorne or Kharnath by another name.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
Not if the Emperor can say anything about it...behold! His final decree in the face of damnation - Terminus...(said in the same way as the Pirate Code)

Am missing your point here.

My point is that the Emperor's has a trump card of his own in case we go the way of the Eldar.

Better press that button now then as with the Eldar, it was too late by the time they realised what was happening.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
Really, the Interex seemed to prosper before the Great Crusade reached them, they had built relations with the Eldar and seemed to do just fine, the Auretian Technocracy for another, the Isstvanians, the Diasporex, all conquered because the Emperor was blind to tolerance with Xenos.

And what about the rest of Mankind?

Did they need to go planet hoping and wiping out civilisations? No.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:
Not if the Emperor can say anything about it...behold! His final decree in the face of damnation - Terminus...(said in the same way as the Pirate Code)

Am missing your point here.

My point is that the Emperor's has a trump card of his own in case we go the way of the Eldar.

Better press that button now then as with the Eldar, it was too late by the time they realised what was happening.

The Purifiers know when to push it...not even the Eldar are as good as fighting Chaos as the Purifiers are, Wardian gak aside.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Really, the Interex seemed to prosper before the Great Crusade reached them, they had built relations with the Eldar and seemed to do just fine, the Auretian Technocracy for another, the Isstvanians, the Diasporex, all conquered because the Emperor was blind to tolerance with Xenos.

And what about the rest of Mankind?

Did they need to go planet hoping and wiping out civilisations? No.

Better safe than sorry, seeing as lots of Humans were oppressed by Xenos in the Old Night - neither the old man or Mankind were in any forgiving mood.

 Tadashi wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Better press that button now then as with the Eldar, it was too late by the time they realised what was happening.

The Purifiers know when to push it...not even the Eldar are as good as fighting Chaos as the Purifiers are, Wardian gak aside.

If it is too late and the rot has taken hold, it is too late. Not even the Grey Knights know of every bit of taint in the Imperium.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Did they need to go planet hoping and wiping out civilisations? No.

Better safe than sorry, seeing as lots of Humans were oppressed by Xenos in the Old Night - neither the old man or Mankind were in any forgiving mood.

True, but then they crushed those that weren't and those that co existed, mankind knew no better as it was being led by a warmongering tyrant that destroyed all opposition on his own planet.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:

Better press that button now then as with the Eldar, it was too late by the time they realised what was happening.

The Purifiers know when to push it...not even the Eldar are as good as fighting Chaos as the Purifiers are, Wardian gak aside.

If it is too late and the rot has taken hold, it is too late. Not even the Grey Knights know of every bit of taint in the Imperium.

Perhaps...but when the Terminus Decree is invoked (or when GW goes bankrupt), then everything will end as the Emperor wished it.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Did they need to go planet hoping and wiping out civilisations? No.

Better safe than sorry, seeing as lots of Humans were oppressed by Xenos in the Old Night - neither the old man or Mankind were in any forgiving mood.

True, but then they crushed those that weren't and those that co existed, mankind knew no better as it was being led by a warmongering tyrant that destroyed all opposition on his own planet.

I appreciate your concern for the common man/xenos, but the world/galaxy is messy enough. What it need is unification, leadership! (yes, I paraphrased it from G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra)

As for the tyrant part...technically some of the most celebrated heroes/leaders in myth, legend,, and history were tyrants: King Arthur, Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Emperor Meiji, Queen Elizabeth I, Queen Victoria, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Napoleon Bonaparte, etc. and, thanks to their culture-based absolute authority, the current King of Thailand and the current Japanese Emperor are also tyrants...its all a matter of perspective.

 Tadashi wrote:


Perhaps...but when the Terminus Decree is invoked (or when GW goes bankrupt), then everything will end as the Emperor wished it.

Is that a fact is it? I am not sure I agree with you at all, for someone who cared so much about mankind to just destroy it all seems such a waste of time.

Tadashi wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Did they need to go planet hoping and wiping out civilisations? No.

I appreciate your concern for the common man/xenos, but the world/galaxy is messy enough. What it need is unification, leadership! (yes, I paraphrased it from G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra)

Because that is something the Imperium does so well I mean when the Emperor was around everyone was so happy with the way he was running things .. oh wait ...

 Pilau Rice wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:


Perhaps...but when the Terminus Decree is invoked (or when GW goes bankrupt), then everything will end as the Emperor wished it.

Is that a fact is it? I am not sure I agree with you at all, for someone who cared so much about mankind to just destroy it all seems such a waste of time.

If we can't have it, then no one can. And, IIRC, 'terminus' is a latin word describing an end for something.

Could be the end of the Emperors loo roll for all we know

And the beginning of the Age of Chaos...meh. Better for the galaxy to burn in the hands of Chaos than let it grow in the hands of filthy xenos.

 Tadashi wrote:
And the beginning of the Age of Chaos...meh. Better for the galaxy to burn in the hands of Chaos than let it grow in the hands of filthy xenos.

So much for being the biggest defender against the 'threats' then?

 Daba wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:
And the beginning of the Age of Chaos...meh. Better for the galaxy to burn in the hands of Chaos than let it grow in the hands of filthy xenos.

So much for being the biggest defender against the 'threats' then?

The Emperor's dead, the Imperium's in ruins, what then? Submit to nose-less fish people? Become slaves and lapdogs of pointy-eared limp-wrists? No thank you...I would sooner die than see the galaxy, in the hands of an elf!

 Tadashi wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:
And the beginning of the Age of Chaos...meh. Better for the galaxy to burn in the hands of Chaos than let it grow in the hands of filthy xenos.

So much for being the biggest defender against the 'threats' then?

The Emperor's dead, the Imperium's in ruins, what then? Submit to nose-less fish people? Become slaves and lapdogs of pointy-eared limp-wrists? No thank you...I would sooner die than see the galaxy, in the hands of an elf!

If you think that the Great Powers would allow anyone to simply die then you are delusional.

I would only die if the only other choice would be to kneel to xenos filth...otherwise, PRAISE BE TO TZEENTCH!!!

 KingDeath wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:

 Daba wrote:

 Tadashi wrote:
And the beginning of the Age of Chaos...meh. Better for the galaxy to burn in the hands of Chaos than let it grow in the hands of filthy xenos.

So much for being the biggest defender against the 'threats' then?

The Emperor's dead, the Imperium's in ruins, what then? Submit to nose-less fish people? Become slaves and lapdogs of pointy-eared limp-wrists? No thank you...I would sooner die than see the galaxy, in the hands of an elf!

If you think that the Great Powers would allow anyone to simply die then you are delusional.

There's too many lives that would be lost for even Tzeench to count. Not all of them would be tortured forever by chaos gods, and after chaos had destroyed all life, there would be no fear to feed them, nor plague, war, etc. They'd go back to how they were before humanity came along, and I doubt that includes a capacity for torturing souls.