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It might just be that i'm from Arizona and he treated as a saint here, but I think that he was one of the best senators of the 20th century

youbedead wrote:Goldwater is the father of the modern conservative movement. it's that the modern republican party isn't fiscally conservative only socially.

Ouze wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

Ouze wrote:I think DADT was the best Clinton could have gotten, and I'm glad we've finally moved past that.

Finally we have the kind of military Barry Goldwater was for like, 50 years ago.

That evil Mr. Conservative his vision must be stopped!
Oh wait.

J
I was praising him. I guess what I was trying to say is that I wish his brand had shaped the conservative movement more firmly. I don't agree with everything he was for, but lots of it was good, and he was consistent in his beliefs; as opposed to modern conservatism which often means smaller government when talking about the market while simultaneously passing stuff to keep gays from getting married, women from getting abortions, and so forth. The father of modern conservatives probably couldn't win an election now and would be tarred as a RINO; this is a sad thing imo.

I guess I thought it was obvious I was agreeing with you, especially when it illicited hate mail from the Hammer.

youbedead wrote:Goldwater is the father of the modern conservative movement. it's that the modern republican party isn't fiscally conservative only socially.

You and Barry Goldwater must not live on the same planet. Before he died he publically told the Republicans not to associate themsleves with him. BG would fight the modern conservatives with every bone in his body. to put it in a local perspective Richard Carmona has a hell of a lot more in common with BG than Jeff Flake does.

because the goldwater of the 1950s is a vastly different goldwater from the 1960's and later. Current fiscal conservatism (and I do mean fiscal conservative) is based heavily on the ideals of Goldwater.

Also a note on Flake, why the hell do we so many AZ politicians with ridiculously appropriate names for politicians. Schmuck, Flake, I mean come on

 youbedead wrote:
because the goldwater of the 1950s is a vastly different goldwater from the 1960's and later. Current fiscal conservatism (and I do mean fiscal conservative) is based heavily on the ideals of Goldwater.

It's basically Goldwater, with the addition of Reagan's most important piece of political insight 'talking about fiscal conservatism wins votes but actually doing costs votes, so just talk about it but don't actually do it'. Add in some stuff about abortion and you've more or less got the modern Republican Party.

Also a note on Flake, why the hell do we so many AZ politicians with ridiculously appropriate names for politicians. Schmuck, Flake, I mean come on

They need more people called Krauthammer.

yah, what goldwater did was to move the republican party away from an easten elitist organization that would eventually give rise to Reagan. I agree the man himself would probably be horrified at what happened to the republican party.

 AustonT wrote:
I guess I thought it was obvious I was agreeing with you, especially when it illicited hate mail from the Hammer.

Sorry, I guess I failed my save vs sublety.

 youbedead wrote:
because the goldwater of the 1950s is a vastly different goldwater from the 1960's and later. Current fiscal conservatism (and I do mean fiscal conservative) is based heavily on the ideals of Goldwater.

Also a note on Flake, why the hell do we so many AZ politicians with ridiculously appropriate names for politicians. Schmuck, Flake, I mean come on

Considering that Goldwater conservatism was defined by the 1964 election and from that point on he became more and more libertarian I have no idea why you brought up the 50's at all, but since you did. Goldwater never distanced himself from his moral stance and anti-unionism until his death. He simply made it clear he felt that religion and morality were a private and not a public affair to be legislated.

On Flake the guy is a d bag. He broke a self imposed term limit and them said outright "I lied," he is a flake so his name is appropriate. I was actually really surprised Scwikert beat Quale in the primary, I'll bet Ben wishes he took that pension now.