Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Ratbarf wrote:
Well as far as I'm aware the reason behind this is that some places don't have enough female membership to warrant a separate Girl Scout Troop, so they get folded into the Boy Scouts. The reverse can't actually happen because there has to be a Boy Scout Troop in the area before a Girl Scout Troop. Or at least that's what I remember when I saw girls at the Cub Camps or whatever.

I don't know why that would be the case when they're two entirely separate organizations. It might be more likely that there's a boy scout group in the area first, simply because it's something that's more popular with boys, but there's absolutely no requirement that one exist before the girl scouts set up a group of their own.

Of course this actually works out pretty well since, at least at the national level, the girl scouts aren't full of bigots and have much more reasonable membership policies.

 LoneLictor wrote:

Kaldor wrote:This is old news. I can't remember the fallout, if he got his award or successfully sued or whatever, but I do remember an article where a lot of eagle scouts started handing back their medals

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/157371035/eagle-scout-returns-badge-in-protest

http://boingboing.net/2012/07/23/eagle-scouts-stand-up-to-the-b.html

All I can say is that the scouts obviously have their right to let whoever they want into their private club, and exclude whoever they want. I just hope that in this day and age, the decision to only allow straight christian males is as abhorrent to the average citizen as militant white power groups and neo nazism, and that they become a lunatic fringe group like they should. The more publicity on this, the better.

What's your opinion on "WHITES ONLY" businesses?

Do they even have those? Jesus, this isn't the god damned 19th century!

But yes, as a private business owner you can do whatever you want.

As an ex-Scout, I think this kind of discrimination is disusting.

If he's done the work to become an Eagle Scout then he deserves the award. I don't believe there is anything in the Scout Promise or Law which forbids homosexuality so what basis is there for him to be denied this award?

 Kaldor wrote:
All I can say is that the scouts obviously have their right to let whoever they want into their private club, and exclude whoever they want. I just hope that in this day and age, the decision to only allow straight christian males is as abhorrent to the average citizen as militant white power groups and neo nazism, and that they become a lunatic fringe group like they should. The more publicity on this, the better.

Godwinism for the win!!


My experience in the boy scouts was hardly a good one. I liken it to being in a perpetual locker room, red necks were in charge and the there was a serious pecking order and bullying was a part of it.

GG

My experience in the boy scouts was hardly a good one. I liken it to being in a perpetual locker room, red necks were in charge and the there was a serious pecking order and bullying was a part of it.

GG

So in essance it gave you an accurate depiction of the Adult World?

I don't really know how an organization where the adult male in charge wears a neckerchief all the time gets away with kicking anyone out due to being gay.

feeder wrote:

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
I hate the boy scouts. They've always annoyed me, since I was about five, and kids would brag about how much fun they had with the "troop"... bleck. I loved the idea of getting out in the wild and doing cool stuff, but that's actually not even a big part of what they do, and even then, I wasn't crazy about religion.

In retrospect, I probably could've put on a mask, like I'm going to have to do quite soon, but in the end, I would've been surrounded by a bunch of brainwashed little fanatics.

This is just sad though.

It's much easier to not participate, and just pass judgement without trying, isn't it?

I had a blast during my scouting experience, I got to go camping and hiking, learn to sail, canoe, bivouac, rappel, all that fun stuff. And I was smart enough not to get diddled by the pedo scoutmaster.

Come to think of it, I learned a lot more "real world" skills scouting than in school.

When the boy was in scouts, I learned that their Dad's are extremely competitive about the car and boat races. Sucked the fun right out of it. Camping was good though.
Didn't notice any churchy stuff at all. I'm thinking thats more people who actually weren't scouts opining.

Girl scouts were different, especially camping.
1. Had to teach the moms too. I and occasionally the Boy were slave labor, and this is stereotypical, but women cannot put up a multiroom tent to save their lives.
2. on the positive the food was a whole other level. Boy scouts rough it. We had brownies and chocolate and full spreads with freshly baked biscuits in the morning. YES!
3. October camping involved a multi troop haunted house every year. YES!!!

 Ratbarf wrote:

My experience in the boy scouts was hardly a good one. I liken it to being in a perpetual locker room, red necks were in charge and the there was a serious pecking order and bullying was a part of it.

GG

So in essance it gave you an accurate depiction of the Adult World?

I had the same thought.

 Seaward wrote:
I don't really know how an organization where the adult male in charge wears a neckerchief all the time gets away with kicking anyone out due to being gay.

This is why I like you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

When the boy was in scouts, I learned that their Dad's are extremely competitive about the car and boat races.

The competition is good. The problem is, and I think this what you're really saying, that the dads get too involved.

Its good to make sure Little Jimmy doesn't cut his finger off*, but let him have creative control.



*Though, in the case of my old man, several hospital trips followed from Pinewood derby car creation. Knife safety by example.

 dogma wrote:
Pinewood derby

THAT'S what it was called. Been trying to think of it for a couple hours now.

Yea, the dads would get involved to the point it was sad.

One dad, an airline engineer, literally took their car to a small wind tunnel, to test the design with most minimum drag.

Interestingly, as siblings could also enter we did up a car for GC that was bright pink and purple plus sparkles and was a real hit with the crowd.

 Frazzled wrote:
Yea, the dads would get involved to the point it was sad.

One dad, an airline engineer, literally took their car to a small wind tunnel, to test the design with most minimum drag.

Yeah, the closest to that my dad got was dropping me off at the library, pointing me at the physics section, and saying "Have fun."

Fun was had. Derbies were won. Not because I understood physics, but because lots of physics textbooks illustrate drag graphically.

Also: There are adult Pinewood derby leagues, why did I not know of this?

Probably not totally relevant, but couldn't think of another place to put this:

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Yea, the dads would get involved to the point it was sad.

One dad, an airline engineer, literally took their car to a small wind tunnel, to test the design with most minimum drag.

Yeah, the closest to that my dad got was dropping me off at the library, pointing me at the physics section, and saying "Have fun."

Fun was had. Derbies were won. Not because I understood physics, but because lots of physics textbooks illustrate drag graphically.

The only help I did was jigsaw cutting. I don't know about other troops and how it works, but ours had a guy with a woodshop and thos eof us without equipment could clock an hour in there. As the Boy's bio dad nearly cut his hand off on a saw all family units preferred that I do that part.

GC did her own painting with pink and purple glitter paint and the Boy did blue glitter paint. While there we decided a Leman Russ and CHimera needed workover with glitter paints and glues. Enter the first units in Frazzled Mardi Gras themed Nurgle army. ..

 Seaward wrote:
I don't really know how an organization where the adult male in charge wears a neckerchief all the time gets away with kicking anyone out due to being gay.

Yeah, it's a bit like Lemmy being kicked out of Hawkwind for taking drugs!

 Frazzled wrote:
Yea, the dads would get involved to the point it was sad.

One dad, an airline engineer, literally took their car to a small wind tunnel, to test the design with most minimum drag.

Interestingly, as siblings could also enter we did up a car for GC that was bright pink and purple plus sparkles and was a real hit with the crowd.

I made one with a spine of rusty nails sticking out of it. My father took a little more control of the design after that.

 Frazzled wrote:

feeder wrote:

 Samus_aran115 wrote:
I hate the boy scouts. They've always annoyed me, since I was about five, and kids would brag about how much fun they had with the "troop"... bleck. I loved the idea of getting out in the wild and doing cool stuff, but that's actually not even a big part of what they do, and even then, I wasn't crazy about religion.

In retrospect, I probably could've put on a mask, like I'm going to have to do quite soon, but in the end, I would've been surrounded by a bunch of brainwashed little fanatics.

This is just sad though.

It's much easier to not participate, and just pass judgement without trying, isn't it?

I had a blast during my scouting experience, I got to go camping and hiking, learn to sail, canoe, bivouac, rappel, all that fun stuff. And I was smart enough not to get diddled by the pedo scoutmaster.

Come to think of it, I learned a lot more "real world" skills scouting than in school.

When the boy was in scouts, I learned that their Dad's are extremely competitive about the car and boat races. Sucked the fun right out of it. Camping was good though.
Didn't notice any churchy stuff at all. I'm thinking thats more people who actually weren't scouts opining.

Girl scouts were different, especially camping.
1. Had to teach the moms too. I and occasionally the Boy were slave labor, and this is stereotypical, but women cannot put up a multiroom tent to save their lives.
2. on the positive the food was a whole other level. Boy scouts rough it. We had brownies and chocolate and full spreads with freshly baked biscuits in the morning. YES!
3. October camping involved a multi troop haunted house every year. YES!!!

I was a scout-I absolutely hated it. Of course, my earlier comments had nothing to do with whether or not I was one or not (don't worry Frazzy, I know you weren't pointing me out), but I'll share my experiences anyway. When I was young, I was sent to scout camp for a week-it rained the entire week. Not the fault of the camp, I know, but it was still a miserable experience. While there, I tore my arm open on a rusty nail. Rusty. Nail. What did the camp nurse do? She put a bandaid on it. Nothing more. That was while knowing what injured me. I didn't go back-my parents were furious. I can say the pinewood derby and boat races were awesome-taught you about aerodynamics, how to use power tools, and letting your imagination go wild. My dad used to build his own PWD car right next to mine. We had a blast doing them together. Follow it up with once they started letting the boys be the group leaders-we had one guy who became leader, got sick and somebody else had to take his place for a few weeks while he recovered. Guy was a complete douche and just ordered everyone around to do things setting up the new Boy Scout meeting building that we had recently purchased-he only delegated (rudely) and wouldn't lend a hand to anyone. Scout masters just shrugged and kept talking amongst themselves. I have no respect for a boss/leader who won't get down and get his hands dirty with his employees. Thankfully, I've had very few bosses who don't.

Actually, the camping wasn't too bad as I got older and my dad went with the group. Everyone else had beans and hot dogs over a fire, he made us chicken fajitas. We ate well. Hmm...turns out the only fun time I had at scouts was the time I got to spend bonding with my dad during it at the derby building and camping trips. What a wonder...

Scouting should be great. Moonrise Kingdom is great in part because of the scouting stuff in it.

Prejudiced douchebags are prejudiced douchebags, so dog bites man.

As a takeaway for those who don't know, remember that Girl Scouts of America is a totally separate and morally superior organization; scouting without the douchebag politics of prejudice. Some local BSA groups can be fine too, depending on who's running them.

 Kaldor wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

Kaldor wrote:This is old news. I can't remember the fallout, if he got his award or successfully sued or whatever, but I do remember an article where a lot of eagle scouts started handing back their medals

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/25/157371035/eagle-scout-returns-badge-in-protest

http://boingboing.net/2012/07/23/eagle-scouts-stand-up-to-the-b.html

All I can say is that the scouts obviously have their right to let whoever they want into their private club, and exclude whoever they want. I just hope that in this day and age, the decision to only allow straight christian males is as abhorrent to the average citizen as militant white power groups and neo nazism, and that they become a lunatic fringe group like they should. The more publicity on this, the better.

What's your opinion on "WHITES ONLY" businesses?

Do they even have those? Jesus, this isn't the god damned 19th century!

But yes, as a private business owner you can do whatever you want.

You meant the 20th century of course.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Scouting should be great. Moonrise Kingdom is great in part because of the scouting stuff in it.

Prejudiced douchebags are prejudiced douchebags, so dog bites man.

As a takeaway for those who don't know, remember that Girl Scouts of America is a totally separate and morally superior organization; scouting without the douchebag politics of prejudice. Some local BSA groups can be fine too, depending on who's running them.

I wouldn't say that. I'd argue the GSA is now heavily invested in maintaining salaries of executive management, and is generally incompetent otherwise. Their bureaucracy has shot through the roof in recent years, such that a lot of volunteers have bailed.

Hmm. Sad to hear; my info may be a few years out of date.

 Frazzled wrote:

I wouldn't say that. I'd argue the GSA is now heavily invested in maintaining salaries of executive management, and is generally incompetent otherwise. Their bureaucracy has shot through the roof in recent years, such that a lot of volunteers have bailed.

Lets be honest, we only support the group because of the Thin Mints.

Samoas 80%, Thin Mints 20%.

One of the best and smartest girls I ever dated (when I was a teenager) was in the Girl Scouts. She was a big advocate of the organization, but that was a couple of decades ago, now.

Ugh, I hate coconut. The local troop switched to ABC and we started getting Lemonades; which are also great.

Never went to scouts. It just seemed like less effort to go out to my local park at night in a pair of assless chaps, and get molested that way.

Y'know, cut out the middle-man?

 dogma wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

I wouldn't say that. I'd argue the GSA is now heavily invested in maintaining salaries of executive management, and is generally incompetent otherwise. Their bureaucracy has shot through the roof in recent years, such that a lot of volunteers have bailed.

Lets be honest, we only support the group because of the Thin Mints.

Caramels baby, caramels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mannahnin wrote:
Samoas 80%, Thin Mints 20%.

One of the best and smartest girls I ever dated (when I was a teenager) was in the Girl Scouts. She was a big advocate of the organization, but that was a couple of decades ago, now.

I would still advocate for it. But its like most things, the local stuff is good, the higher up the crappier.

its excellent for the gals, and how do I say this. We had several single moms and some immigrant kids. They would not have been able to do the things they did without GS.

Here's a few:
*Party in the largest capital building in the United States.
*sleep in the middle of a major zoo.
*climb a 100 foot rope and con your parent(s) into doing the same.

In a bizarre turn of events I worked little over half a year at a Girl Scouts corporate office and let me tell you the big wigs are not saints or professionals by any means.

I enjoyed scouts, even won the pinewood derby one year. Never made it past Webelos and I confess I do tend to think staying in through Eagle Scout is a bit odd.

 Manchu wrote:
I enjoyed scouts, even won the pinewood derby one year. Never made it past Webelos and I confess I do tend to think staying in through Eagle Scout is a bit odd.

In today's world yes... However this was not always the case. It used to be, putting Eagle Scout on your resume when job hunting meant something. Being an Eagle Scout was akin to being a True American, which would unlock the door to becoming an All-conference, All-American, Heisman winning Quarterback for some "American School"


I think that, especially the LDS movement bringing Scouting into their doors, recent years have done quite a bit of damage to the overall view of Scouts and Scouting. It no longer has that same social "status" that it used to. No thanks of course, to the guys near SF who are denying an award that was earned by a young man who worked his arse of for it.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
As an ex-Scout, I think this kind of discrimination is disusting.

If he's done the work to become an Eagle Scout then he deserves the award. I don't believe there is anything in the Scout Promise or Law which forbids homosexuality so what basis is there for him to be denied this award?

As a current Leader, we've had this discussion before, BSA is different than UK Scouts, in the UK, you don't have to belive in god, just something, this could be David Beckham, Justin Timberlake, the flying spaghetti monster, The God Emporer of Mankind etc. but in america it basicly means the Christian God

Also funny that we need to let girls Join scouts but the Girl guides code-thingy says they don't have to accept boys as a girl only atmosphere is "vital"

 dogma wrote:

Smith said belief in God is the foundation of scouting's strong, continuing commitment to encouraging moral, ethical and spiritual growth. It is the position of the Boy Scouts of America that no one can reach their full potential without belief in a higher power.

I like how the BSA refuses to simply state that you can't be a Scout if you're not straight and Christian.

You don't have to just be Christian, one of the twelve points of the Scout Law is to be reverent. This originally meant that yes, you had to be Christian of some sort, but they have expanded it to include all other religions. They promote the participation of growing one's faith through the religious medals, etc...

I disagree with this policy as I know several gay scouts that earned their Eagle Scout rank and got so much out of the actual program.

I get that the BSA is allowed to say "no gays" because they are private organization, but as someone that went through the program, I've been shaped by the experiences I've had with the scouts, and I've met some of my best friends through my scout troop.

Fething Boy Scouts... Make me feel bad to have been one :-/