Cant wait for the CSM codex to be old news.

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**SoloFalcon1138**

Believe us, people will get over the Chaos codex when the next codex comes out.

**Brometheus**

I got asked by the store manager today how I'm liking the new book and I simply responded "it's amazing".

As I've said elsewhere on dakka- Not to be a martyr or anything but if Tsons players can handle the damn book then everyone else should be able to as well. If not, then make your own rules. I encourage everyone to make their own stuff if it makes them happy and makes sense for what army they play.

I am pleased with this release, even more pleased with the codex, and I'm sorry but I am absolutely thrilled at all the CSM lists popping up.

Just ignore the people who keep complaining but remember that their money is involved and it makes sense if people complain about this stuff. Human nature and all that.

Oh, and...... 999 posts?

Coincidence?

Or "All according to plan"?

I'll take option #2.... and will accept that I am probably just a pawn. : (

**ZebioLizard2**

ScooterinAB wrote:

I recommend people actually learn about their armies and build them based on the background material..

Someone who doesn't know background information behind armies shouldn't be one to judge others.

**Skriker**

Experiment 626 wrote:
... and to play Thousand Sons you must take nothing but Rubric Marines...

So the Thousand Sons have not changed AT ALL in 10,000 years? Sure whatever.

If you look at the fluff for the Thousand Sons Rubric marines in the codex it makes it clear that those Rubric marines are *RARE*. They are not the be all and end all of Tzeentch followers, nor are they the only ones who call themselves thousand sons. A thousand sons war band in 40k time frame is probably made up of a core of sorecerers and rubric marines supported by plenty of "normal" chaos marines and forces. You can include *anything* in the army as you see fit. The only thing saying that you must take nothing but Rubric Marines to play Thousand Sons is *you*. No where does such a rule exist in the codex. Even the fluff doesn't say that.

Skriker

**Trondheim**

Makumba wrote:
Adapt and overcome, its not that hard. I know going back to the drawing board after spending time play testing and coming up with a working list sucks, But its all part of the hobby.

there is no way for chaos to "adapt" to necron or IG , the dex are just better and that is assuming someone is not stupid and doesnt play something else the black legion . how is a WE player suppose to adapt this edition ? assault sucks , does nothing to flyers , if they build a mauler rush it has auto lose against scyth wing . 1ksosn ? lol . EC ? no plasma and all the problems it brings , problems with dealing with non blob IG etc , but hey are they dominating swarm tyranids or what . there is nothing bad in GW wanting bigger sales . But do they not understand that people still want to play legions and forcing them to play black legion is as if all loyalist marines had to play ultramarines ?

also changes are ok , new options are awesome . nerfing everything that people bought in to unplayability , while making the new options not so cool, because of necron , games still caping points before 2k , does make people pissed. I mean the new 2 HQ suck . the fiends are ok , in a void , but when one thinks about IG and necron one has to take havocks . they have a single flyer , can max take 3 . bs3 str 8 does not down other flyer builds fast enough even , if the drakes come in second . that of course doesnt mean that everything in that dex is crap . of course not , but it builds a very specific list with little options and you end up playing black legion .
While on the other hand SW who have the same type of game play have a lot more options , better psyker protection . they dont have flakk or flyers , unless they ally them in , free ultra grit etc etc .

Pardon? It dose not say anywhere in the new dex that your army MUST be Black legion, in fact this new codex gives us in my humble opinion much more room for our own warbands. Its all made in such a way that you can tailor your army to suit your own desiers and needs on the field. Having played some 10 games with the new dex against some 350+ games with the old one I much rather prefer this one.

**taudau**

AnomanderRake wrote:
In all honesty, it's to be accepted. The 'bandwagon' players are always going to be around, you can't really do anything about them; the hubbub won't die down completely until the next release.

I am a little tired of people assuming I'm a bandwagon player just because I have a Grey Knights army, though. I don't use Crowe, Draigo, or any of Ward's silly special characters, I don't use Purifiers, and half my models are metal Grey Knights leftover from the army I used in the 4th edition era; I've stuck with the army through hell and high water, so people griping at me about 'new Grey Knight players' is obnoxious.

Exalted!

Yes, this so much good sir !

**ScooterinAB**

Edited by Manchu.

**Crimson-King2120**

i love the new dex noise marines are badass daemon princes are no longer a must have havocs have become awesome and cultists mean we finally have an expendable scoring unit

**Experiment 626**

Skriker wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
... and to play Thousand Sons you must take nothing but Rubric Marines...

So the Thousand Sons have not changed AT ALL in 10,000 years? Sure whatever.

If you look at the fluff for the Thousand Sons Rubric marines in the codex it makes it clear that those Rubric marines are *RARE*. They are not the be all and end all of Tzeentch followers, nor are they the only ones who call themselves thousand sons. A thousand sons war band in 40k time frame is probably made up of a core of sorecerers and rubric marines supported by plenty of "normal" chaos marines and forces. You can include *anything* in the army as you see fit. The only thing saying that you must take nothing but Rubric Marines to play Thousand Sons is *you*. No where does such a rule exist in the codex. Even the fluff doesn't say that.

Skriker

You clearly missed my sarcasam

I was simply pointing out how silly those who say you absolutely cannot, in any fathomable way, play a "proper Legion army"...

I agree fully that anyone who says for example, "you can't play World Eaters, whaaaaaaaan!!1!11!" is just being plain dumb. A World Eaters warband is not 100% Berserkers, and never was even during the Heresy!
Sure you'd have your 'Zerkers, but then you'd also have the likes of Termies, Chosen, Possessed, Havocs w/assault weapons like meltas/flamers, bikers, jump pack troops and vehicles fitted with Destroyer Blades... All of those fit well into any World Eaters army once you give them the MoK and just stick mainly to assault weapons instead of heavies. For AA, Helldrakes fit the bill since it's a bloodthirsty daemon engine for example.

This new codex is not only a resonable half-way point between the blad-as-feth 4th ed codex & the 3.5 codex, but it's also and more importantly, looking to be a 'first step' towards bringing ALL 40k codices into line with what's been happening with the newer Fantasy books.
Nothing stands out as OP/broken or 'must spam x1,000,000 for an 'easy button' type of game play, and there's plenty of variety and viable builds that if you use a little bit of brain power, (something your average power-gamer distinctly lacks), you should be able to build pretty much any kind of Legion or Warband or Renegade list.

**Skriker**

Experiment 626 wrote:
You clearly missed my sarcasam
I was simply pointing out how silly those who say you absolutely cannot, in any fathomable way, play a "proper Legion army"...

Oops my bad...apologies on that.

We seem to be quite on the same page based on the rest of your comments.

Skriker

**Dunklezahn**

Can't agree with the OP enough on this one.

New dex drops and I come here thinking I'll be able to read discussions on what people are doing with them, cool conversion ideas etc but every Chaos thread eventually shows the same names whining over and over about the same stuff "Princes can be ID'd, Noise Marines can't move and fire as far, berzerkers suck, I can't play Warband/Legion X"

You don't like it, we heard you the first 50 times, you don't need to spam every damn Chaos thread. There are some of us however who are enjoying a, not perfect by any stretch, but solid, *balanced* dex and it'd be nice to be able to discuss it without those particular names wading in like a broken record.

Given the behaviour of elements of the Dakka comunity since the Chaos launch I find it unlikely that anyone could say they come here because it's less whiney than other forums.

**Luke_Prowler**

People dissatisfied with product complaining about it? My, what a novel concept.

if you don't like the complaining, that's fine, but people have a right to say it and if you don't like them then it would be far more productive debunking them than just doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears

**htj**

Luke_Prowler wrote:
People dissatisfied with product complaining about it? My, what a novel concept.

if you don't like the complaining, that's fine, but people have a right to say it and if you don't like them then it would be far more productive debunking them than just doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears

True, it is always more productive to debunk than to dismiss, but he has a right to vent his frustrations too. Far better to have a thread where people can vent their exasperation than have them be doing so in one of the dozens of hating threads. Those are the threads to bring level headed debunking to. Let the man have his frustration thread.

**Dunklezahn**

Luke_Prowler wrote:
People dissatisfied with product complaining about it? My, what a novel concept.

if you don't like the complaining, that's fine, but people have a right to say it and if you don't like them then it would be far more productive debunking them than just doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears

They have every *right*, at no point do I deny it, but when certain posters on this board have waded into virtually every thread on the subject spouting the same gripes they have long since stopped adding anything to the conversation. You cannot debunk an opinion, if they were saying "Princes are 700pts of lame" I could point them to the codex and say "wrong". Someone who's only addition to the conversation being to wade into a thread and say "Princes can be ID'd and are worthless now" cannot be debunked. Either they play in a force weapon heavy S10 meta and they genuinely feel that or it's the kind of kneejerk response the internet is famous for after any nerf, I don't know, nor would I assume to know. What I can say is we heard them the first 50 times, which we did, and now all the comment brings to the table is repetition and taking the thread on a flamewar tangent rather than the conversation the OP wanted.

I hate space marines with a passion but I don't wade into every thread about them telling people how they suck and they're GW's poster boys with all the rules set up to aid them (I save that for rant emails to my friends). I too have every right to, but I show that modicum of self control and let people have their conversation without me.