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 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 LunaHound wrote:
This case is actually simple.
"The wolf sees in different light" think over it.

Criminals and wolves are actually comparable on some level, the wolf and the criminal doesn't seek healthy, strong or dangerous prey. Not unless times have been hard and they're very hungry, they seek the weak and exposed members of the herd. Saying you have a duty to remain strong, aware and capable, or in the company of others you know you can trust, doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Le Loup Desire, Le Loup Obtient

What the wolf wants, the wolf gets.

Just to let you know, that's not really a french saying. CB made that one up.

Well it is french in the sense that is in french, I just thought it was appropriate here.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Criminals and wolves are actually comparable on some level, the wolf and the criminal doesn't seek healthy, strong or dangerous prey. Not unless times have been hard and they're very hungry, they seek the weak and exposed members of the herd. Saying you have a duty to remain strong, aware and capable, or in the company of others you know you can trust, doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Le Loup Desire, Le Loup Obtient

What the wolf wants, the wolf gets.

There's no 'the criminal mind'. Batman and the real world are actually very different things

 sebster wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Criminals and wolves are actually comparable on some level, the wolf and the criminal doesn't seek healthy, strong or dangerous prey. Not unless times have been hard and they're very hungry, they seek the weak and exposed members of the herd. Saying you have a duty to remain strong, aware and capable, or in the company of others you know you can trust, doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Le Loup Desire, Le Loup Obtient

What the wolf wants, the wolf gets.

There's no 'the criminal mind'. Batman and the real world are actually very different things

Not a mind but a mind set. Thanks for your contribution detective.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Not a mind but a mind set. Thanks for your contribution detective.

Nor a mind set. One shoplifter's motives and thought patterns are likely to be very different from another shoplifter, let alone a serial rapist.

Motivation for a mugger changes, how that mugger or rapist is going to watch and look at people does not. You look for weakness, you look for people who are distracted, not paying attention, don't look like they can physically defend themselves. That's the "criminal mindset" under discussion.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Motivation for a mugger changes, how that mugger or rapist is going to watch and look at people does not. You look for weakness, you look for people who are distracted, not paying attention, don't look like they can physically defend themselves. That's the "criminal mindset" under discussion.

But again not really. Most rape isn't a premeditated act, a person looking for prey. Same with murder - premeditation is a lot less common than the movies have people assume.

A really large number of break and enters are from kids doing it for gaks and giggles as much as for any property they might take. There the challenge is part of the attraction, instead of something to be avoided.

Crime is a really weird and complex thing, trying to ascribe a general motivation in a single type of crime is hard enough, trying to put one general rule over all criminals just isn't possible.

djones520 wrote:
So who actually does this?

There was a good example of this on Dakka last week:

Whembly wrote:Abso-frigging-lutely I blame victim!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/481181.page#4861691

Then you have images like this:



and worse ones that I've seen along the lines of "She was a slut, she deserved it"

 Albatross wrote:
Rape isn't lightning. Yes, you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but getting incredibly intoxicated and putting yourself in a very vulnerable position increases the risk of that happening by a very frightening amount.

Citation needed. AFAIK, the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by people known to the victim, in the home. Walking home drunk is going to turn the miniscule chance of getting raped into a slightly less miniscule chance.

Naive utopian ideals about how the world should be don't do anything to help this situation.

No, but I don't think anyone is saying that sensible efforts to make yourself safer are victim blaming. Victim blaming is when people actively say the victim deserved it, and the person mostly at fault is the victim, and it's bullsquirt.

I learned from Chongara last week on Dakka that most rape is committed by serial rapists. Sebster disagrees above as part of an argument against rapists having much in common with one another. It seems to me this issue has bearing not on whether any one is "asking for it" (they're not) but rather may be useful regarding awareness and prevention.

 Kaldor wrote:
[

 Albatross wrote:
Rape isn't lightning. Yes, you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but getting incredibly intoxicated and putting yourself in a very vulnerable position increases the risk of that happening by a very frightening amount.

Citation needed. AFAIK, the overwhelming majority of sexual assaults are perpetrated by people known to the victim, in the home. Walking home drunk is going to turn the miniscule chance of getting raped into a slightly less miniscule chance.

Being KNOWN to the victim doesn't mean that alcohol does make one more prone to sexual assault/rape... happen to have a close female friend who got on the wrong end of that at a house party just a couple weeks ago. Little too much to drink, woke up naked and in a rather massive amount of pain with some bleeding from her nethers. Did she know the rapist? Yes she did, it was a good friend of her and her husband. Would that rape have happened without alcohol? No. I'd say the majority of rapes are like that one. House party or a male friend taking a girl home... maybe he's interested in her, maybe he's drunk himself, but whatever happens things go to far.

 Manchu wrote:
I learned from Chongara last week on Dakka that most rape is committed by serial rapists.

In something like 80% of cases of rape the attacker is known to the victim, so I'd be really surprised if those people were serial rapists. From what I've read most rape comes from

Sebster disagrees above as part of an argument against rapists having much in common with one another.

It's not so much that they don't have much in common with one another, but that they have at least as much in difference as they do in common, and that what they have in common varies wildly from crime to crime.

It seems to me this issue has bearing not on whether any one is "asking for it" (they're not) but rather may be useful regarding awareness and prevention.

There's all sorts of awareness and prevention steps that can be taken. My issue is that making up stories about criminal looking for weak prey isn't informed by actual case history, and is probably doing more harm than good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Being KNOWN to the victim doesn't mean that alcohol does make one more prone to sexual assault/rape... happen to have a close female friend who got on the wrong end of that at a house party just a couple weeks ago. Little too much to drink, woke up naked and in a rather massive amount of pain with some bleeding from her nethers. Did she know the rapist? Yes she did, it was a good friend of her and her husband. Would that rape have happened without alcohol? No. I'd say the majority of rapes are like that one. House party or a male friend taking a girl home... maybe he's interested in her, maybe he's drunk himself, but whatever happens things go to far.

Horrible story. I'm sorry for your friend.

I think part of this is about learning where the real risks are, and where they aren't. So if you're at a party and drunk, and you realise just about everyone has left and the host is giving you a really creepy vibe, well then maybe you're better off getting out of there even if it means being alone on the street and drunk.

I mean, I don't know, maybe that's a terrible idea. I don't know all the risk factors, and maybe they vary based on age and where you live. But the point is there's people who know this stuff and who teach women on assessing danger, and their information comes from studies of the real world.

There's also a distinction between having your agency being forcibly denied to you, and actively contributing to the denial of your own agency.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The point of blaming the victim is to enforce a particular expected social code of behaviour by the threat of the bogeyman of crime.

The question is why such victim blaming should be directed particularly at women who get raped or murdered, rather than people who get involved in car crashes, or stabbed in fights in pubs, or victimised by credit card fraud.

See all this could be cleared up if we just used criminals for dog food.

Agreed.