| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2012/10/25 08:48:53
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Fresh-Faced New User
Norway
|
Codex Astartes is nothing more than a colection of mainly the other Primarchs takticks with a sprinkel of "the Legions should be smaller".
I dont give Dorn much credit, in my mind he is the Primarch of pointless last stands, see Iron cage in IA Iron Warrior, and the way he died, but he is just the one you would have at your side at a last stand. Both the Lion and Gulliman are superior to Dorn as a whole, but not at defence in a siege.
|
I used 15 spawns in 1500 pts armyes before it was cool  |
|
|
 |
|
2012/10/25 08:51:10
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
Warsmith Tharak wrote:Codex Astartes is nothing more than a colection of mainly the other Primarchs takticks with a sprinkel of "the Legions should be smaller". I dont give Dorn much credit, in my mind he is the Primarch of pointless last stands, see Iron cage in IA Iron Warrior, and the way he died, but he is just the one you would have at your side at a last stand. Both the Lion and Gulliman are superior to Dorn as a whole, but not at defence in a siege.
Traitors they may be, but I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists in such a situation.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 08:51:40
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/25 09:02:14
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Hulking Hunter-class Warmech
|
It is actually stated somewhere that it's Perturabo's writings on seigeworks that were included in the Codex Astartes, rather than Dorn's...
Which kinda proves you right Tadashi  Even Gulliman seems to agree with you!
|
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/25 09:08:16
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
Tibbsy wrote:It is actually stated somewhere that it's Perturabo's writings on seigeworks that were included in the Codex Astartes, rather than Dorn's... Which kinda proves you right Tadashi Even Gulliman seems to agree with you!
In the science of siegecraft and fortification, Perturabo and his progeny have no equal. And the Ultramarines Champion from The Iron Within agreed, and implied that Guilliman had sought out the Iron Warrior loyalists for this purpose. He would probably seek out the Thousand Son loyalists for their expertise in psychic matters. After all, the way the Horus Heresy novels are going, its probably gonna be Guilliman (as Lord Commander) who will amend/repeal the Edicts of Nikaea. Using 'new-model' Librarians who've had their training augmented with additional data gleaned from the Thousand Son loyalists.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 09:11:49
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/25 23:38:30
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Guard Heavy Weapon Crewman
IN YOUR CLOSET!!!!!!!!
|
Honestly I didn't read mush of any thing but if the emperor never was confined to the golden thone.......
Things wold be different very different
|
 BOW TO MY BADGER
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 03:53:10
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle
Laguna Beach, OC, CA, USA
|
I have an interesting twist to add the the conversation: What would have happened had the Emperor died outright?
|
 A moment of laxity spawns a lifetime of heresy
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 07:21:04
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
|
 Tadashi wrote:Tibbsy wrote:It is actually stated somewhere that it's Perturabo's writings on seigeworks that were included in the Codex Astartes, rather than Dorn's...
Which kinda proves you right Tadashi Even Gulliman seems to agree with you!
In the science of siegecraft and fortification, Perturabo and his progeny have no equal. And the Ultramarines Champion from The Iron Within agreed, and implied that Guilliman had sought out the Iron Warrior loyalists for this purpose. He would probably seek out the Thousand Son loyalists for their expertise in psychic matters. After all, the way the Horus Heresy novels are going, its probably gonna be Guilliman (as Lord Commander) who will amend/repeal the Edicts of Nikaea. Using 'new-model' Librarians who've had their training augmented with additional data gleaned from the Thousand Son loyalists.
Tadashi this is from "Horus rising"
Now will you belive me?
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/26 07:21:37
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 07:34:59
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Fresh-Faced New User
Norway
|
The Empire would frakture, and the next centurys would see the chaos forces killing of the disorginiced loyalist. Most likely macragg would be the last to fall, and the galaxy would be under the Chaos gods rule.
Tau would be exterminated before they get sivilicided, Necron would wake up basicly in the warp with powerless gods and outnumberd billions to one by daemons. Tyranides would fare no better VS Daemons, cultist and Chaos space marines.
Eldar would not be a dying rase, but a dead one.
Orks would go down in a blaze of glory.
When not fighting others the Legions would fight among themself for planets and power until there would be only one.
|
I used 15 spawns in 1500 pts armyes before it was cool |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 07:37:49
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
 DarthMarko wrote: Tadashi wrote:Tibbsy wrote:It is actually stated somewhere that it's Perturabo's writings on seigeworks that were included in the Codex Astartes, rather than Dorn's... Which kinda proves you right Tadashi Even Gulliman seems to agree with you!
In the science of siegecraft and fortification, Perturabo and his progeny have no equal. And the Ultramarines Champion from The Iron Within agreed, and implied that Guilliman had sought out the Iron Warrior loyalists for this purpose. He would probably seek out the Thousand Son loyalists for their expertise in psychic matters. After all, the way the Horus Heresy novels are going, its probably gonna be Guilliman (as Lord Commander) who will amend/repeal the Edicts of Nikaea. Using 'new-model' Librarians who've had their training augmented with additional data gleaned from the Thousand Son loyalists.
Tadashi this is from "Horus rising" Now will you belive me?
No - because he didn't have what it takes to rebuild the Imperium after the Horus Heresy ended. Instead he went emo. Whereas Guilliman had every reason to go as emo as Dorn, and more (he never made it in time to be of use at Terra), yet he rebuilt the Imperium anew: Imperium Secundus. And I still stand by what I said - even if they are traitors, I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists when it comes to fortification and siege. I'd even bet a million dollars that if the roles had been reversed, and Perturabo had commanded the fortification of the Imperial Palace (just like if Guilliman was in command of the loyalist war effort), the Emperor would never have been forced to confront Horus.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/26 07:38:22
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 07:54:07
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
|
Tadashi wrote: DarthMarko wrote: Tadashi wrote:Tibbsy wrote:It is actually stated somewhere that it's Perturabo's writings on seigeworks that were included in the Codex Astartes, rather than Dorn's...
Which kinda proves you right Tadashi Even Gulliman seems to agree with you!
In the science of siegecraft and fortification, Perturabo and his progeny have no equal. And the Ultramarines Champion from The Iron Within agreed, and implied that Guilliman had sought out the Iron Warrior loyalists for this purpose. He would probably seek out the Thousand Son loyalists for their expertise in psychic matters. After all, the way the Horus Heresy novels are going, its probably gonna be Guilliman (as Lord Commander) who will amend/repeal the Edicts of Nikaea. Using 'new-model' Librarians who've had their training augmented with additional data gleaned from the Thousand Son loyalists.
Tadashi this is from "Horus rising"
Now will you belive me?
No - because he didn't have what it takes to rebuild the Imperium after the Horus Heresy ended. Instead he went emo. Whereas Guilliman had every reason to go as emo as Dorn, and more (he never made it in time to be of use at Terra), yet he rebuilt the Imperium anew: Imperium Secundus. And I still stand by what I said - even if they are traitors, I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists when it comes to fortification and siege. I'd even bet a million dollars that if the roles had been reversed, and Perturabo had commanded the fortification of the Imperial Palace (just like if Guilliman was in command of the loyalist war effort), the Emperor would never have been forced to confront Horus.
But we are talking about heresy time !?... Btw I myself don't get what happened with the "IF" after heresy (non codex - super codex chapter) ...but look at Guiliman; he did kind of force the codex,do you agree?
|
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 07:56:05
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
DarthMarko wrote: Tadashi wrote: DarthMarko wrote: Tadashi wrote:Tibbsy wrote:It is actually stated somewhere that it's Perturabo's writings on seigeworks that were included in the Codex Astartes, rather than Dorn's...
Which kinda proves you right Tadashi Even Gulliman seems to agree with you!
In the science of siegecraft and fortification, Perturabo and his progeny have no equal. And the Ultramarines Champion from The Iron Within agreed, and implied that Guilliman had sought out the Iron Warrior loyalists for this purpose. He would probably seek out the Thousand Son loyalists for their expertise in psychic matters. After all, the way the Horus Heresy novels are going, its probably gonna be Guilliman (as Lord Commander) who will amend/repeal the Edicts of Nikaea. Using 'new-model' Librarians who've had their training augmented with additional data gleaned from the Thousand Son loyalists.
Tadashi this is from "Horus rising"
Now will you belive me?
No - because he didn't have what it takes to rebuild the Imperium after the Horus Heresy ended. Instead he went emo. Whereas Guilliman had every reason to go as emo as Dorn, and more (he never made it in time to be of use at Terra), yet he rebuilt the Imperium anew: Imperium Secundus. And I still stand by what I said - even if they are traitors, I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists when it comes to fortification and siege. I'd even bet a million dollars that if the roles had been reversed, and Perturabo had commanded the fortification of the Imperial Palace (just like if Guilliman was in command of the loyalist war effort), the Emperor would never have been forced to confront Horus.
But we are talking about heresy time !?... Btw I myself don't get what happened with the "IF" after heresy (non codex - super codex chapter) ...but look at Guiliman; he did kind of force the codex,do you agree?
It was a necessary act...and his reforms have preserved the Imperium for ten thousand years. Apart from the Emperor, only Horus (had he remained loyal) or Malcador/Sanguinius (had they survived) could have done better.
|
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 08:14:44
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
|
^ Bold statment, tell me why so much "dislike" for Dorn?
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/26 08:14:58
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 10:55:30
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
He failed in the defense of Terra...instead of making up for it by helping rebuild the Imperium in a way that didn't abandon the Emperor's ideals, he went emo gak and just went with the flow.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/26 13:30:38
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 12:19:15
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Boom! Leman Russ Commander
New Zealand
|
Why does he have to dislike Dorn just because he doesn't agree with you?
One could ask why you dislike Guilliman so much.
Personally I think the Imperium would have been better served if they'd left the Primarchs to do the warring and everything remotely intellectual be handled by either the Emperor himself or trusted mortal experts. The Primarchs, like their Marine sons, function like an armed Kindergarten.
|
 5000 |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 13:13:40
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Fresh-Faced New User
Norway
|
Tadashi wrote:
He failed in the defense of Terra...instead of making it up for it by helping rebuild the Imperium in a way that didn't abandon the Emperor's ideals, he went emo gak and just went with the flow.
Agree, after the Heresy the Empire where hanging by a tread. Perturbo build his Eternal fortress and Dorn wanted to bring him back in an iron cage. Gulliman wanted to help him, but Dorn was to proud/stupid to aksept and refused him. The ensuring battle saw the Fist mangled so bad that it would take 19 years before Dorn would lead his now chapter to war. Only Gullimans intervention saved Dorn from becoming a corpse. 19 years is not much for a Primarch, but when 10 of them consisted of the wars to hold the Empire together it was not the best of times to sacrifice most of his Legion.
|
I used 15 spawns in 1500 pts armyes before it was cool |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 15:02:01
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
|
Tadashi wrote:
He failed in the defense of Terra...instead of making up for it by helping rebuild the Imperium in a way that didn't abandon the Emperor's ideals, he went emo gak and just went with the flow.
Did the Imperium fall ... no. It got mighty bloodied and it had to be changed like you say, but he didn't fail in the defense of Terra. He believes he failed the Emperor, but did he though? He had no control over the Emperors or Horus actions, he did all he could to protect his father and the Imperium. Whilst Guilliman was off playing Emperor Dorn was striving to ensure the survival of mankind then, not as an after thought.
He hardly went with the flow, he nearly created a new schism in the aftermath of the Heresy, it's only when he realised this that he finally bowed to Guilliman and the restructuring.
What would you have Dorn do, follow his believe and start another civil war? It's easy for Guilliman to say this is what must be done to ensure the survival of the Imperium, he wasn't there when the Emperor almost died, he didn't have to cradle his dieing fathers almost decimated corpse in his arms and see him interred in the Golden Throne. Even Russ and the Lion were there at the end, but no Guilliman.
|
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 15:04:41
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
Tadashi wrote:Traitors they may be, but I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists in such a situation.
Well, there was a small contingent of Iron Warriors that served in an advisory capacity to reinforce the palace. Apparently they made a huge difference, which shows just how mediocre Dorn was at siegecraft if some regular Astartes can give him worthwhile notes.
Tadashi wrote:No - because he didn't have what it takes to rebuild the Imperium after the Horus Heresy ended. Instead he went emo. Whereas Guilliman had every reason to go as emo as Dorn, and more (he never made it in time to be of use at Terra), yet he rebuilt the Imperium anew: Imperium Secundus. And I still stand by what I said - even if they are traitors, I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists when it comes to fortification and siege. I'd even bet a million dollars that if the roles had been reversed, and Perturabo had commanded the fortification of the Imperial Palace (just like if Guilliman was in command of the loyalist war effort), the Emperor would never have been forced to confront Horus.
Well, to be fair, Perturabo also had those super-duper kameyameya mega cannons that the Lion gave him. They were what finally breached the walls, so individual skill didn't have quite as much to do with it.
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/26 15:07:54
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 15:15:32
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh
|
 Omegus wrote: Tadashi wrote:Traitors they may be, but I would choose the Iron Warriors over the Imperial Fists in such a situation.
Well, there was a small contingent of Iron Warriors that served in an advisory capacity to reinforce the palace. Apparently they made a huge difference, which shows just how mediocre Dorn was at siegecraft if some regular Astartes can give him worthwhile notes.
Building a Castle is different from taking it a part.
No matter how well you build something, there might be some flaw in your design that you might not be able to see, which is where the loyalist Iron Warriors come in. They are there to show Dorn how an Iron Warrior would go about's counteracting the defenses that Dorn made. If there were traitor 'Fists, I'm sure Perturabo would have done the same thing but in a role reversal.
|
No pity, no remorse, no shoes |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/26 22:06:25
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Commanding Lordling
|
IronFrog wrote:Hi all
I am just wondering on opinions and thoughts as to what would have happened to the imperium if more legions sided with the emperor rather then Horus and he had been defeated before he caused so much destruction to the empire.
The emperor would not be confined to the golden throne and it is unsure wether something like the codex would have even been authored seemingly allowing mass production of Astartes like there was before the heresy.
Just wondering what peoples opinions, suggestions and thoughts are on the subject.
If Horus had won, I wouldn't say that humanity would die in a few generations.
As a matter of fact I think It would have been really awesome if it ended that way. It would have been pockets of humans hiding within the galaxy, holding out... The second founding of marines would have possibly happened, if the original chapters defending Earth were smart and fled to preserve other worlds. Humanity would have probably had closer ties to the Eldar since they would both be pretty much playing the same ballgame,, an awesome thought actually, more galctical unity while still mainting the ''ALL OUT WAR'' having all races still enemies. It would also have the ''grimdark'' feeling cause ultimately humanity would die.. well, it still is, but who knows?
|
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/27 09:07:54
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
 Pilau Rice wrote:
What would you have Dorn do, follow his believe and start another civil war?
Instead of going emo, he could have helped Guilliman and the Council rebuild. Of all people in the Imperium, Dorn was probably the only one who could have convinced the Council of Terra not to sanction the Imperial Cult - because he was there in the throne room when the Emperor gave his last commands. And not one of those was to sanction his own worship...in fact, I remember reading once that one of His Imperial Majesty's last commands was to uphold the Imperial Truth.
It's easy for Guilliman to say this is what must be done to ensure the survival of the Imperium, he wasn't there when the Emperor almost died, he didn't have to cradle his dieing fathers almost decimated corpse in his arms and see him interred in the Golden Throne. Even Russ and the Lion were there at the end, but no Guilliman.
And you really think the Emperor would have disapproved of Guilliman's actions? Instead of mourning, he took action to preserve what was left of his father's realm. It may have been imperfect, but at least he [i]took action. That is what a true heir would have done.
|
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/27 13:36:57
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Space Marine Scout with Sniper Rifle
|
No one can dispute that guilliman held the imperium together after Horus was killed. all the other primarchs wanted revenge, also i dont think Tadashi is hating on Dorn so much as he is not agreeing with previous other statements from Imperial Fists fanboys
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/27 13:47:20
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
IronFrog wrote:No one can dispute that guilliman held the imperium together after Horus was killed. all the other primarchs wanted revenge, also i dont think Tadashi is hating on Dorn so much as he is not agreeing with previous other statements from Imperial Fists fanboys
Pretty much. I don't have anything against them personally, but saying they're the best at fortification and siegecraft is just plain wrong. The Iron Warriors gain that honor, traitor or not. EDIT: And Dorn commanded the Terran defense because there was no other choice at the time...I'm sure that if Lion or Guilliman made it to Terra before Horus did, either would have been given command.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/27 13:49:54
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/27 14:34:03
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
|
Tadashi wrote: Pilau Rice wrote:
What would you have Dorn do, follow his believe and start another civil war?
Instead of going emo, he could have helped Guilliman and the Council rebuild. Of all people in the Imperium, Dorn was probably the only one who could have convinced the Council of Terra not to sanction the Imperial Cult - because he was there in the throne room when the Emperor gave his last commands. And not one of those was to sanction his own worship...in fact, I remember reading once that one of His Imperial Majesty's last commands was to uphold the Imperial Truth.
Really. iirc the imperial cult was legitimicized sometime M33? Dorn disapeared/died way before that
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/27 15:18:01
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine
|
Tadashi wrote:IronFrog wrote:No one can dispute that guilliman held the imperium together after Horus was killed. all the other primarchs wanted revenge, also i dont think Tadashi is hating on Dorn so much as he is not agreeing with previous other statements from Imperial Fists fanboys
Pretty much. I don't have anything against them personally, but saying they're the best at fortification and siegecraft is just plain wrong. The Iron Warriors gain that honor, traitor or not.
EDIT: And Dorn commanded the Terran defense because there was no other choice at the time...I'm sure that if Lion or Guilliman made it to Terra before Horus did, either would have been given command.
Overall command perhaps, but the Lion at least would have had enough sense to bow to someone better than him at sieges, at least until the fighting started. There wouldn't be any sense in taking command even if you knew you were going to do a worse job of it.
|
Arguing with some people is like playing chess with a pigeon. You can play the best chess in the world, but at the end of the day the pigeon will still knock all the pieces off the board and then gak all over it. |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/28 01:44:10
Subject: Re:If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
matapata98 wrote: Tadashi wrote: Pilau Rice wrote:
What would you have Dorn do, follow his believe and start another civil war?
Instead of going emo, he could have helped Guilliman and the Council rebuild. Of all people in the Imperium, Dorn was probably the only one who could have convinced the Council of Terra not to sanction the Imperial Cult - because he was there in the throne room when the Emperor gave his last commands. And not one of those was to sanction his own worship...in fact, I remember reading once that one of His Imperial Majesty's last commands was to uphold the Imperial Truth.
Really. iirc the imperial cult was legitimicized sometime M33? Dorn disapeared/died way before that
It wouldn't have been legitimized, if someone had convinced the Council of Terra not to turn a blind eye to it after the Horus Heresy ended. Since they did, it steadily grew.
|
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/28 13:33:59
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Potent Possessed Daemonvessel
|
I don't think Dorn can be blamed for the Imperial Cult. As the first High Lord of Terra, Guilliman would have had far more authority on the issue.
The Cult as we know it simply wasn't an issue at the time. Though various groups that venerated the Emperor were becoming more widespread, they were still very underground and harmless. In fact, there was some benefit to them, since they maintained morale among mortal forces (punishing a guardsman for praying to the Emperor while defending the Emperor's walls against an invasion is not good for morale), and there had been at least one instance of a living saint (or something similar).
|
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/28 13:40:37
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
Omegus wrote:...and there had been at least one instance of a living saint (or something similar).
Where the hell was Russ? I'm sure this definitely smacks of malign sorcery!
|
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
2012/10/28 16:18:20
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Omegus wrote:I don't think Dorn can be blamed for the Imperial Cult. As the first High Lord of Terra, Guilliman would have had far more authority on the issue.
The Cult as we know it simply wasn't an issue at the time. Though various groups that venerated the Emperor were becoming more widespread, they were still very underground and harmless. In fact, there was some benefit to them, since they maintained morale among mortal forces (punishing a guardsman for praying to the Emperor while defending the Emperor's walls against an invasion is not good for morale), and there had been at least one instance of a living saint (or something similar).
The Imperial Cult came about long after Gulliman's WIA against Fulgrim though. The Temple of the Saviour Emperor, the precursor to the Ecclesiarchy, appeared in early M32 while all the Primarchs were already gone by the end of M31.
|
My Armies:
5,500pts 
2,700pts 
2,000pts 
|
|
|
|
|
2012/10/29 06:24:32
Subject: If the Horus Heresy had ended differently
|
|
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought
Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...
|
 Harriticus wrote: Omegus wrote:I don't think Dorn can be blamed for the Imperial Cult. As the first High Lord of Terra, Guilliman would have had far more authority on the issue.
The Cult as we know it simply wasn't an issue at the time. Though various groups that venerated the Emperor were becoming more widespread, they were still very underground and harmless. In fact, there was some benefit to them, since they maintained morale among mortal forces (punishing a guardsman for praying to the Emperor while defending the Emperor's walls against an invasion is not good for morale), and there had been at least one instance of a living saint (or something similar).
The Imperial Cult came about long after Gulliman's WIA against Fulgrim though. The Temple of the Saviour Emperor, the precursor to the Ecclesiarchy, appeared in early M32 while all the Primarchs were already gone by the end of M31.
It wouldn't have appeared in the first place had the Primarchs and the Council of Terra strictly enforced the Emperor's proscriptions against religion.
|
I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.
'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fluff for the Fluff God! 