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When you're getting hit on 3's and are striking after guardsmen, yes, you suck at close combat. The fact that the guard player will probably have double to triple the amount of infantry you do only makes the fight more lopsided. Even CONSCRIPTS are better in close combat than fire warriors are. Any halfway decent assault unit will tear through them like tissue paper. Just because your opponent has the possibility to roll 1's doesnt change that (hence theCaptain's reaction) Just because one time your fire warriors lucked out and killed kharne doesn't mean it will reliably happen. I've drug down harliquins with guardsmen before. I still try to keep them away though because I know it was a fluke

And saying tau are to close combat as orks are to shooting is a horrible analogy. Dakka orks are downright brutal right now. Dakkajets, lootas, shootaboys, warbikers/nobs, big gunz, etc. all have insanely good firepower for their cost. Just because orks are only bs 2 doesnt change that. We get such an obscene amount of shots that it doesnt bother us one bit.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Tau are horrible in CC, that's a given.

But keep in mind that counting on that too much MIGHT ruin your day, as their HQ are actually decent at it (and a few actually surprisingly good) and a set of not-so-good rolls can let even a mere shas'o take down a khorne chaos lord.

Prepare for epic nerd rage if that every happens, especially to TFG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the answer to the question is yes.

 hazal wrote:
Tau are the worst CC codex in 40k

Fixed that for ya!

 illuknisaa wrote:

Pottsey wrote:
I have started to use challenges with my Tau battlesuit characters as squads that used to wipe me out now sometimes lose. For example charge in and challenge the Ork Nob. I4 means we hit first, 5A’s at WS4 and STG5 means we have a decent chance to win. Stick a shield gen on with 2+ armor and although pricey you get do well at CC.

Ork nobs usually have a pk. That means they have 4 ap 2 attacks on charge which will instakill you. You don't do anything with 2+ save or fnp.

Yes they will instant kill me if I fail to kill them and do not take shields but chances are they will be dead first. People do not expect battlesuits to charge but if the battlesuit charges the orks the battlesuit strikes before the nob with PK. All those attacks at straight 5 make easy work of Ork Nobs. What was a sure fire lose in 5th for Tau now turns into a win for 6th. As long as you choose your target carefully Tau are pretty decent at CC now.

 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Tau are horrible in CC, that's a given.

But keep in mind that counting on that too much MIGHT ruin your day, as their HQ are actually decent at it (and a few actually surprisingly good) and a set of not-so-good rolls can let even a mere shas'o take down a khorne chaos lord.

Prepare for epic nerd rage if that every happens, especially to TFG.

Been there, done that, laughed my ass off.



Said chaos lord is no longer in command.

tau do not suck in cc because even though they have got a ws of 2 their armour save of four plus and photon grenades even it out so anything like grots, combat squad of marines and imperial guard they can last a while and there for giving other units time to fall back and then if the squad gets of close combat they will shoot the hell out of them

Last time I faced Tau their Suit HQ came at my Exorcist tank with some powerglove thingy, gave him a single S10 attack. He hit and made the Exorcist shoot only snap shots next turn. Too bad two rockets hit him in the face when it fired.

But it could have worked. SoB shouldn't count on opponents being bad in CC anyway, they should shoot them up and burn what's left before getting in contact.

Point 1: Making a CC unit for Tau to use in a friendly game DEFEATS THE ENTIRE IDEA OF THE TAU. They're range. All their CC units are shizz (bar Krootox Hounds MAYBE), Kroot are only good for infiltrating/holding objectives, or sitting in forests and getting shot at, and, yes, a battlesuit can hold its own in combat, a battlesuit commander can even beat some killy HQs, but I'd like to see it survive at the hands of a mob of Khorne Berserkers after a few steroid injections, or even a 100pt squad of Wyches with Haywire Grenades. I don't think it would end very well for the poor old battlesuit on the other end

"bad" in CC doesn't mean helpless and unable to make a morale test.

I used Aun'Va in the old codex to create a stubborn Tau CC army. It was just for fun. I won a little over half my games though.

In the new Codex, Aun'Va is not QUITE as able to do that but you could still give er a shot.

But Tau are honestly not going to win most fights, no matter what words we mince here. they SHOOT their opponents dead "in melee". That's how they roll.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:
Point 1: Making a CC unit for Tau to use in a friendly game DEFEATS THE ENTIRE IDEA OF THE TAU. They're range. All their CC units are shizz (bar Krootox Hounds MAYBE), Kroot are only good for infiltrating/holding objectives, or sitting in forests and getting shot at, and, yes, a battlesuit can hold its own in combat, a battlesuit commander can even beat some killy HQs, but I'd like to see it survive at the hands of a mob of Khorne Berserkers after a few steroid injections, or even a 100pt squad of Wyches with Haywire Grenades. I don't think it would end very well for the poor old battlesuit on the other end

haywire cant harm battle suits they are multi wound models not walkers

I collect Tau and yes cc is not their strong point. Saying this they can hold their own. Also with the support fire rule with markerlight points you don't have to worry to much about the cc. I think this is what makes them so interesting to play, as you have to rely on good old gorilla tactics and ambush to avoid getting caught out in cc. Cause 9 times out of 10 if you do, its lights out vienna.

THIS THREAD IN A NUTSHELL:

"YES, YES THEY DO"

Farsight actually isn't too bad with his 4-5 WS5 I4 STR 5 Ap2 attacks.

The one bright spark in the codex.

 ExNoctemNacimur wrote:
Here's a little anecdote for you:

I kick my 9 Berzerkers with SC and PS out of their land raider and send them charging at a squad of 12 fire warriors.

The next turn we have 0 Berzerkers and a very happy Tau player.

That had to take some epically bad rolling.

Well, whats making Tau bad at CC is their Initiative 2 and their Weapon skill 2, and the lack of dedicated melee weapons for anything but the ethereal and Farsight ( and Farsight is actually decent at melee despite his race ) and then we have Aun`shi...just why?

But thats why Tau have "Support Fire" because they dont want to get into melee, and i personally put flamers on my crisis suits for support fire purposes ( and some templates in case of hordes ) 5 points a flamer is a okay price for automatic wounds when you have nothing better to spend em on.