Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Agree to disagree then. Because the only thing that made him better in 6th currently, is that every power weapon wielding crazy man, cant slice wounds off him anymore. Sure 1 on 1 he is still better then a MegaBoss in combat, but the point is, by how much? AND with the extra cost, what can you take in the savings? I can take 8 lootas, or an entire x20 shootaboyz mob or nearly a trukk mob w/pk toting nob. Id only take Ghaz if the game had a lot of points, then sure, because that 125 points isnt missed nearly as much as in say, 1500 or 1800. Again, thats mainly because of how useless his WAAAGH! is now in 6th.

I personally, prefer flexibility and bodies over brute force. Because as I said before, his transport can be shot down and he walk for 2 or 3 turns, or he can be tied up by a fearless mob. Where as another Megaboss wont, OR the extra units I buy with the savings will be more firepower to make up for the bigman being tied up

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Yep. He's also BS 0, which, thanks to the new rules edition, means that any of his pyschic shooting attacks AUTOMATICALLY MISS (which is stupid) it means he can only use about half his normal powers :\ It's a shame too, because if he could still use his normal powers as well I think he'd be a really solid addition to a green tide list.

I was only aware of one shooting attack (Zzap!) that says it automatically hits. I would think that wording in the codex would over ride the brb.

I don't have my ork codex in front of me to quote thogh.

I've been running the mad doc in a grotskrieg list and he's been devastating, 5++ to any unit in the codex is awesome.....and as you can give it to non SC's HQs (unless thats been changed) its half the points off the usual cybork bodies

Mad Dok is nice, but his special rule can be used against you. It is not the worst thing in the world, but it can be annoying.

For example, if your opponent drives a land raider into his unit, you are now forced to sit there and pound on it until it cracks. With only str 8/9 power klaws, that is not always so easy.

 Green is Best! wrote:
Mad Dok is nice, but his special rule can be used against you. It is not the worst thing in the world, but it can be annoying.

For example, if your opponent drives a land raider into his unit, you are now forced to sit there and pound on it until it cracks. With only str 8/9 power klaws, that is not always so easy.

Maybe. Since the Mob is Fearless, they move 1" away from the Land Raider after the Tank Shock. On the Ork turn, he and the Nob would have 9 attacks, 6 hits, S9 vs AV14 for 1 glance and 1 pen, a +1 on the Vehicle Damage Chart roll, 33% chance to stun or immobilize and 33% chance to outright explode. If the LR survives, it then only has a 50% chance to move during it's Movement Phase, and a 50% chance to be stuck in base contact with the Ork Mob. 7 Attaks, 4.7 hits, .8 glances, won't get killed in the Marine Assault phase. On the Ork Turn, repeat the last Ork assault, so dead from hull points or explodes. This is all worked out in an isolated scenario with no interference from other units, but 2 Ork turns to kill a LR doesn't seem bad at all.

 Green is Best! wrote:

 MrMoustaffa wrote:

Yep. He's also BS 0, which, thanks to the new rules edition, means that any of his pyschic shooting attacks AUTOMATICALLY MISS (which is stupid) it means he can only use about half his normal powers :\ It's a shame too, because if he could still use his normal powers as well I think he'd be a really solid addition to a green tide list.

I was only aware of one shooting attack (Zzap!) that says it automatically hits. I would think that wording in the codex would over ride the brb.

I don't have my ork codex in front of me to quote thogh.

Technically, they don't automatically miss, the aren't allowed to be used at all.

To get really into the wordings:
Codex: The pyschic power automatically hits
BRB: Models with a BS0 cannot use psychic shooting attacks

Since Zoggy has a BS of 0, he cannot make a psychic shooting attack thus the automatic hit never happens. A true 'Eadbanger....


Frazzle also automatically hits, but you can't use that either.

On the plus side, 'Eadbanger is a shooting attack, so that doesn't function.


If anyone was going to play this way, then it's probably not worth your time. This is clearly not indented.

 KingCracker wrote:
Agree to disagree then. Because the only thing that made him better in 6th currently, is that every power weapon wielding crazy man, cant slice wounds off him anymore. Sure 1 on 1 he is still better then a MegaBoss in combat, but the point is, by how much? AND with the extra cost, what can you take in the savings? I can take 8 lootas, or an entire x20 shootaboyz mob or nearly a trukk mob w/pk toting nob. Id only take Ghaz if the game had a lot of points, then sure, because that 125 points isnt missed nearly as much as in say, 1500 or 1800. Again, thats mainly because of how useless his WAAAGH! is now in 6th.

I personally, prefer flexibility and bodies over brute force. Because as I said before, his transport can be shot down and he walk for 2 or 3 turns, or he can be tied up by a fearless mob. Where as another Megaboss wont, OR the extra units I buy with the savings will be more firepower to make up for the bigman being tied up

No no, see, that's not what i'm saying. I'm saying that ghazzy's rules for 6th edition have made him stronger than his rules in 5th edition were. I'm not comparing him to regular mega bosses or anything else in the codex. Just 6th ed. Ghazzy v. 5th ed ghazzy.

Yea I get what you were saying. I still disagree that hes better in 6th then 5th. I think thats crazy. I already mentioned that he is ONLY better as far as regular power weapons wont strip wounds off him. Big deal, MegaBosses are just a survivable really, for the same reason. My point is, the only REAL reason you took him in 5th was because of his WAAAGH! which now....is useless. Which was my counter point to your statement

 KingCracker wrote:
Big deal, MegaBosses are just a survivable really, for the same reason.

That is a good point.

What about Buzzgob and Zhadsnark from Imperial Armour 8?Both afe usable in a Codex: Orkz army and Zhadsnark is cheaper and ''better'' than Gutsmek.
Normal initiative power klaw? Yes please!

I dont know their rules or anything about them really. I guess if youre using 40k legal IA units, and they are better for the price, then go for it!

Just give me a second and I can toss up a rough summary of both of them.

Edit: Zhadsnark - 150 Points
Standard Biker-Boss stats except only 6+ Armour (There's not much of his bike I guess?)
Can take Warbiker's as Troop choices, but can not take Deff Dreads, Killa Kans, or Big Gunz in an army he's leading.
Has a normal Initiative Power Klaw.
Moving flat out is 24". Instead of assaulting, can Tank-shock instead.

Buzzgob - 100 Points
Comparable to standard Warboss stats (-1 attack* and free 'Eavy Armour)
Free 'Eavy Armour, Big Choppa, Boss Pole, 2 Grot Oilers
And has "Mek Arms" which function as Mek Tools and give him +1d3 attacks in the first round in combat. (Count as Big Choppas)

 loota boy wrote:
Ghazzy's main attraction last edition was his fantastic automatic 6" Waaagh! move. Now it just lets you run 6", and you can't run and assault with fleet anymore. So he lost a lot of his force multiplier ability. However, individually he has arguably gotten better. He's no longer pathetically slow from snp, and 2+ saves are just badass now. So, as a beatstick, he's improved.

Ghazghkull was hit with the neff stick so bad.
His old Waaagh! was so powerfull i used to tell all the new Ork player to use Ghazghkull untill they learn how to play Orks.
I still to this day don't understand why the codex was written to have one of the hardest play styles in 40k for 5ed

One of the hardest playstyles? Are you mental? Tell that to the Eldar, Dark Eldar before their revamp, Tau, Nids and Sisters of Battle players.

Ghazzy has gotten worse over all, yes, but in just pure combat terms, he has gotten better. I don't plan on using him, because the main attraction was a great army-wide buff in addition to a deadly beatstick. We lost the army-wide buff, but beatstick capabilities have improved. I still don't think he's worth it, but for simple combat purposes, he's damn near invulnerable.

 KingCracker wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 loota boy wrote:
Ghazzy's main attraction last edition was his fantastic automatic 6" Waaagh! move. Now it just lets you run 6", and you can't run and assault with fleet anymore. So he lost a lot of his force multiplier ability. However, individually he has arguably gotten better. He's no longer pathetically slow from snp, and 2+ saves are just badass now. So, as a beatstick, he's improved.

Nope. As a beatstick he is still over 100pts more then a MegaBoss who you can actually argue CAN kick more ass then Ghaz hands down. How you ask? Well Ill answer that with another question.....how much does a Mega Armored boss cost? hmm/....add this....carry the 1.......x Pi..... and you get 100pts.....oh. Looky there, 2 megabosses for the price of Ghaz

On the other hand, Ghaz can probably kill off both those Megabosses and still keep going, as can most other beatstick characters.

On the other hand Ghaz can get shot out of his transport and hike across a table, AND can only be in 1 place at a time. While to Megabosses more then likely wont. Also, add in the fact that they can be 2 places at once, and be 2 beat sticks rather then 1 over priced beatstick. Im not seeing how you can argue him being better, not now, not in 6th

Force concentration and only takes up 1 HQ slot. There's also some things that a normal Warboss just can't handle that Ghaz will cruise through.

How's the big fella do against abbadon? From what i've heard, he's the biggest bully on the playground right now. Abbadon, i mean.

 loota boy wrote:
How's the big fella do against abbadon? From what i've heard, he's the biggest bully on the playground right now. Abbadon, i mean.

You would have to Waagh. And you would still have a solid chance of losing. Before Abaddon got any of his Champion bonus rolls.

But you would be substantial competition and you would fare better than anything else in the Codex, that's for absolute sure.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 loota boy wrote:
Ghazzy's main attraction last edition was his fantastic automatic 6" Waaagh! move. Now it just lets you run 6", and you can't run and assault with fleet anymore. So he lost a lot of his force multiplier ability. However, individually he has arguably gotten better. He's no longer pathetically slow from snp, and 2+ saves are just badass now. So, as a beatstick, he's improved.

Nope. As a beatstick he is still over 100pts more then a MegaBoss who you can actually argue CAN kick more ass then Ghaz hands down. How you ask? Well Ill answer that with another question.....how much does a Mega Armored boss cost? hmm/....add this....carry the 1.......x Pi..... and you get 100pts.....oh. Looky there, 2 megabosses for the price of Ghaz

On the other hand, Ghaz can probably kill off both those Megabosses and still keep going, as can most other beatstick characters.

On the other hand Ghaz can get shot out of his transport and hike across a table, AND can only be in 1 place at a time. While to Megabosses more then likely wont. Also, add in the fact that they can be 2 places at once, and be 2 beat sticks rather then 1 over priced beatstick. Im not seeing how you can argue him being better, not now, not in 6th

Force concentration and only takes up 1 HQ slot. There's also some things that a normal Warboss just can't handle that Ghaz will cruise through.

For that I simply say, not everything can be as awesome as Abbaddon. And yes, a MegaBoss ISNT as badass as Ghaz, the point has been though, that the 125pts isnt worth the boost most times

Couple things: how do you deal with MCs if not with Ghaz?

Second,

how do you deploy your Megabosses and what unit do you join them with?

 TedNugent wrote:
Couple things: how do you deal with MCs if not with Ghaz?

Second,

how do you deploy your Megabosses and what unit do you join them with?

I stick the fella with more mega nobz. Generally in a trukk.

Megaboss is usually with a small unit of MANz.


MC I throw boyz at. They work a charm against MC. And lootas can strip wounds off them fairly easy as well

 KingCracker wrote:
Megaboss is usually with a small unit of MANz.


MC I throw boyz at. They work a charm against MC. And lootas can strip wounds off them fairly easy as well

Do you use boyz to tarpit or do you try to kill the MC?

Also, Power Klaw Nob, or no?

 ShadowMageAlpha wrote:
Just give me a second and I can toss up a rough summary of both of them.

Edit: Zhadsnark - 150 Points
Standard Biker-Boss stats except only 6+ Armour (There's not much of his bike I guess?)
Can take Warbiker's as Troop choices, but can not take Deff Dreads, Killa Kans, or Big Gunz in an army he's leading.
Has a normal Initiative Power Klaw.
Moving flat out is 24". Instead of assaulting, can Tank-shock instead.

Buzzgob - 100 Points
Comparable to standard Warboss stats (-1 attack* and free 'Eavy Armour)
Free 'Eavy Armour, Big Choppa, Boss Pole, 2 Grot Oilers
And has "Mek Arms" which function as Mek Tools and give him +1d3 attacks in the first round in combat. (Count as Big Choppas)

Well, Zhadsnark could be handy in a biker ork army (which I would assume is why you're taking him). He would only have the 6+ armor like a normal boss, but being on the bike gives him his +4 just like it gives him his +4 cover save, so unless a rule specifically states otherwise, he still has his +4 armor. Flat out move is nice, but means he's leaving whatever he was with behind, which is probably suicide. The tank shocking though is pretty awesome, since nothing will instakill him. Might be handy against a low LD unit if you wanted to send them packing, but then again, you could just do that with assault too...

Really, I would be taking him just for that Initiative PK. An I 4 S10 PK? Heck yeah! He'd destroy pretty much anything beside the incredibly beatstick characters. The fact that he's 30pts cheaper than Wazdakka though helps. He'd make a brutal addition to a biker nob mob or even just regular warbikers.

 TedNugent wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:
Megaboss is usually with a small unit of MANz.


MC I throw boyz at. They work a charm against MC. And lootas can strip wounds off them fairly easy as well

Do you use boyz to tarpit or do you try to kill the MC?

Also, Power Klaw Nob, or no?

For me its a 2 stage thought for me.
1. tarpit
2. kill it

You will always whittle a MC down to death with just boyz alone, its pretty unlikely that a MC will not only survive, but kill enough boyz to eventually make them not fearless. Ive yet to have that happen,and I typically run x20 boyz, rarely larger then that, because I prefer more mobs over bigger ones (and admittedly I only have so many boyz, so running x30 everywhere doesnt work for me currently lol)

Nob...Ill admit, our group absolutely HATES challenges, so I typically run nobz with PK still, as we dont use the challenge rules, but even still Id prefer the PK there, because the times Ive played WITH the challenge rules, I still kept finding myself in a spot where I wish I had it.

But in saying that, most monstrous creatures cant be challenged anyways right? I think thats right. Anywho, yea the PK here would be a no brainer, wounds on a 2, and doesnt allow an armor save. So unless its the DOOM, you dont worry, even still, against the doom, it fails 1 save, and its dead as dead. But yea, against MC Ive found my boyz kill them faster then a PK nob, because for some reason my PK nobz cant hit the fething ground when running , let alone something they are attacking

 KingCracker wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 KingCracker wrote:

 loota boy wrote:
Ghazzy's main attraction last edition was his fantastic automatic 6" Waaagh! move. Now it just lets you run 6", and you can't run and assault with fleet anymore. So he lost a lot of his force multiplier ability. However, individually he has arguably gotten better. He's no longer pathetically slow from snp, and 2+ saves are just badass now. So, as a beatstick, he's improved.

Nope. As a beatstick he is still over 100pts more then a MegaBoss who you can actually argue CAN kick more ass then Ghaz hands down. How you ask? Well Ill answer that with another question.....how much does a Mega Armored boss cost? hmm/....add this....carry the 1.......x Pi..... and you get 100pts.....oh. Looky there, 2 megabosses for the price of Ghaz

On the other hand, Ghaz can probably kill off both those Megabosses and still keep going, as can most other beatstick characters.

On the other hand Ghaz can get shot out of his transport and hike across a table, AND can only be in 1 place at a time. While to Megabosses more then likely wont. Also, add in the fact that they can be 2 places at once, and be 2 beat sticks rather then 1 over priced beatstick. Im not seeing how you can argue him being better, not now, not in 6th

Force concentration and only takes up 1 HQ slot. There's also some things that a normal Warboss just can't handle that Ghaz will cruise through.

For that I simply say, not everything can be as awesome as Abbaddon. And yes, a MegaBoss ISNT as badass as Ghaz, the point has been though, that the 125pts isnt worth the boost most times

The point has been made that you personally don't feel that the 125 points isn't worth it. Besides, with Abaddon's new AP2 weapon only being S5, Ghazghkull should stomp him flat and eat his hat.

Ghaz should, but probably wont

Weapon Skill 7 and I6....

If Abaddon challenges Ghaz, even with his base stats, and what the hell, let's even assume Ghaz gets the charge:

So, what's the deal here. By turn 4 of combat, Abaddon causes 5.43 wounds to Ghazghkull Thraka on average at initiative 6 - meaning Ghazghkull will almost never get to strike on the 4th turn of combat. However, turn 3 if combat is somewhat more optimistic. With an average of 3.79/4 wounds expended, Ghazghkull very briefly matches Abaddon with 3.77 wounds shaved off his total of 4 wounds. Meaning, with average performance from Abaddon and above average performance from Ghaz it is possible to kill Abaddon at turn 3 IF you get the charge, IF you Wagh, and also taking into account Daemon weapon penalties. If combat lasts to turn 4 Ghaz dies at Initiative 6.

These numbers take into account Ghaz's charge and his 2+ invulnerable save in the first round of combat. Abaddon uses his Claw in the first round of combat because it causes slightly more wounds against a 2+ invuln compared to the Daemon weapon.

BTW, if Abaddon charges Ghaz, he's toast.

You may want to consider putting Ghaz in a unit of Nobz. With the Feel No Pain and Weapon Skill 7 from the Waagh Banner, I feel that Ghazghkull could have a reasonable chance of dueling Abaddon successfully. This is only advisable if you are already using a unit of Nobz; otherwise you're talking about custom listbuilding for the most facesmash IC in the game. If Nobz are already in your list and it is only a matter of pregame deployment, it makes sense.

On the bright side, even if Abaddon wins, he's got 2 wounds left, tops, and he cannot kill Ghaz in the round that he Waghs. It may also be viable to use Ghaz in the first round of combat and then withhold him from challenges once he Waaghs.

Ghaz's invul 2++ lasts two player turns. The turn it's called and the following player turn.

The above calculations would need to be adjusted to take this into account, which gives Ghaz an even better chance of winning.