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 Themanwiththeplan wrote:

Gangsters rob companies and business's, idiots and cowards rob people.

If a gangster is a part of organized crime, then he almost certainly doesn't rob anyone; he provides black market products and services.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
Not when the store is closed, and besides big companies have insurance to cover any loss or damages.

Doesn't stop a thief from damaging the lively hood of a large group of people, and hurting the people who rely on that business.

I'm just saying If the only choice was robbing old ladies and sticking a gun in your face for your wallet or robbing a warehouse and a empty shop I'd choose the latter. I do not condone either action but I do want a petty thief scum called what he is rather than a gangster, which he is not.

What should the people do to prevent something like this?

Nothing. Some things can't be predicated and cannot be prevented. Knee jerk, emotional reactions provide nothing but feel good legislation that does nothing.

Just watch Facebook after a tragedy like this. First day or two, prayers all over and blessings, a week after the event, nobody is talking about it because it's just old news.

Mattman154 wrote:
What should the people do to prevent something like this?

Nothing. Some things can't be predicated and cannot be prevented. Knee jerk, emotional reactions provide nothing but feel good legislation that does nothing.

Just watch Facebook after a tragedy like this. First day or two, prayers all over and blessings, a week after the event, nobody is talking about it because it's just old news.

Well, we could leave psychos who cave people's heads in with hammers locked up where they belong.

Or set up the gallows.

That tends to solve the problem of psycho criminal repeat offenders.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:
What should the people do to prevent something like this?

Nothing. Some things can't be predicated and cannot be prevented. Knee jerk, emotional reactions provide nothing but feel good legislation that does nothing.

Just watch Facebook after a tragedy like this. First day or two, prayers all over and blessings, a week after the event, nobody is talking about it because it's just old news.

Well, we could leave psychos who cave people's heads in with hammers locked up where they belong.

Or set up the gallows.

That tends to solve the problem of psycho criminal repeat offenders.

Bingo. Bludgeoning a person to death is about as personal as you can make it. Barring self defense, that should be an automatic lock up for life. Having it plead down to manslaughter... the prosecuter should be held liable for that.

djones520 wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:
What should the people do to prevent something like this?

Nothing. Some things can't be predicated and cannot be prevented. Knee jerk, emotional reactions provide nothing but feel good legislation that does nothing.

Just watch Facebook after a tragedy like this. First day or two, prayers all over and blessings, a week after the event, nobody is talking about it because it's just old news.

Well, we could leave psychos who cave people's heads in with hammers locked up where they belong.

Or set up the gallows.

That tends to solve the problem of psycho criminal repeat offenders.

Bingo. Bludgeoning a person to death is about as personal as you can make it. Barring self defense, that should be an automatic lock up for life. Having it plead down to manslaughter... the prosecuter should be held liable for that.

How in the nine circles of hell is 1st or 2nd degree murder plead down to manslaughter? What would posses a prosecutor to DO THAT? Hell I could probably prosecute that guy in a criminal court successfully with a decent paralegal to help me with the reference work on the specific laws and how court protocol works.

Clearly, armed teachers should follow fire fighters to fires and protect them with their guns. The armed cops at the schools can fill in as substitutes while the teachers are away...

 kronk wrote:
Clearly, armed teachers should follow fire fighters to fires and protect them with their guns. The armed cops at the schools can fill in as substitutes while the teachers are away...

I laughed out loud.

 kronk wrote:
Clearly, armed teachers should follow fire fighters to fires and protect them with their guns. The armed cops at the schools can fill in as substitutes while the teachers are away...

I find that a less ridiculous plan than, "Let us show what a great and benevolent society we are and listen to our bleeding hearts and allow this poor victim of the system to roam free as nature intended once again."

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

Mattman154 wrote:
What should the people do to prevent something like this?

Nothing. Some things can't be predicated and cannot be prevented. Knee jerk, emotional reactions provide nothing but feel good legislation that does nothing.

Just watch Facebook after a tragedy like this. First day or two, prayers all over and blessings, a week after the event, nobody is talking about it because it's just old news.

Well, we could leave psychos who cave people's heads in with hammers locked up where they belong.

Or set up the gallows.

That tends to solve the problem of psycho criminal repeat offenders.

Definitely. I don't believe he should have been anywhere that isn't called prison.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

How in the nine circles of hell is 1st or 2nd degree murder plead down to manslaughter? What would posses a prosecutor to DO THAT? Hell I could probably prosecute that guy in a criminal court successfully with a decent paralegal to help me with the reference work on the specific laws and how court protocol works.

A prosecutor may bring artificially inflated charges with the intention of offering an attractive plea bargain in order to avoid going to trial, even if a conviction could be secured. Compared to criminal trials, plea bargains are quite cheap in terms of resources expended by the prosecution. This would be especially attractive if the lesser charge carried a sentence that was, for all intents and purposes, equivalent to that of the greater charge.

It really doesn't make a difference (outside of posturing for the public), for example, if a ~60 year old man is sentenced to 60 years or 30 years, in both cases he is going to die in prison; all other things being held equal.

Experiment 626 wrote:
http://news.ca.msn.com/top-stories/4-volunteer-firefighters-shot-2-killed-in-apparent-trap

Seriously? Where the hell did all these nutt cases suddenly come from?!

- First a crazy little punk shooting up a mall full of Xmas shopping families.
- Then a socially inept psycho shooting up a primary school.
- Now we've got some dumb little creep setting a fire and killing firefighters?!

This is getting just beyond silly.

Lets see:
*crazy nutjob already known about by local authorities but nothing done- check.
*jurisdiction already banning firearms - check.

Yep. Standard procedure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Easy E wrote:
Terrible.

Her eis a strange case, the shooter wasn't "legally" allowed to own weapons. Obviously he did have firearms.

So in this case, gun control did not work. That means the NRA will want us to start providing armed security for our firefighters at the scene.

In many areas of the country the police/ambulance won't go in without police escort. I know they wouldn't where I lived at in California.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Yeah this dude bashed his Grandmother's head in with a hammer. Why the HELL was he free to be anywhere much less shooting first responders and most likely murdering his sister?

SHHHHHH...you're not supposed to ask those questions, only remark how evil guns and "the gun lobby" are.

Hi Frazz!

How was your holiday?

Mattman154 wrote:
Hi Frazz!

How was your holiday?

1. Car attacked by coyotes while on highway. Dodged one but the other took out grill, radiator, condensor, and some other parts. car in shop. $2,900.
2. 102 fever, finally getting better. I haven't been sick in like ten years, craZY.
3. On vacation. Enjoying special time with TBone the Magnificent, This will be our last Christmas together, so this is a very special Christmas.
4. Wife and Daughter are at Icky Con in Austin, some sort of manga festival.
5. Boy still not wearing a shirt and it was 30 this morning.

 dogma wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

How in the nine circles of hell is 1st or 2nd degree murder plead down to manslaughter? What would posses a prosecutor to DO THAT? Hell I could probably prosecute that guy in a criminal court successfully with a decent paralegal to help me with the reference work on the specific laws and how court protocol works.

A prosecutor may bring artificially inflated charges with the intention of offering an attractive plea bargain in order to avoid going to trial, even if a conviction could be secured. Compared to criminal trials, plea bargains are quite cheap in terms of resources expended by the prosecution. This would be especially attractive if the lesser charge carried a sentence that was, for all intents and purposes, equivalent to that of the greater charge.

It really doesn't make a difference (outside of posturing for the public), for example, if a ~60 year old man is sentenced to 60 years or 30 years, in both cases he is going to die in prison; all other things being held equal.

I've come to see the so-called "justice system" as simply another political arena. As long as conviction rates remain high, the 'daddy-knows-best' crowd of self-centered, arrogant, high and oh-so-better-than-us mortal masses think they've done their jobs.

Plea bargins are cheap and easy ways to keep those conviction rates up.
Who cares if it means violent repeat offenders get let out within 5-10 years?! We have a 95% or whatever conviction rate!!!

Useless trash like this fethwipe don't need life in prison, they need no more than 1-3 years waiting on Death Row.

 Frazzled wrote:



SHHHHHH...you're not supposed to ask those questions, only remark how evil guns and "the gun lobby" are.

Frazzled, wanting restrictions on the types of firearms available to the general public and wanting people who cave their relatives heads in with hammers to face far more draconian sentencing or putting down are not mutually exclusive.

The kid who stabbed my cousin seven times through the heart, who still claims self defense by the way, despite witnesses testifying that he stooped over my cousin and continued to stab his chest as he lay on the floor... was sentenced to a 'massive' 15 years and can be out well before that. I'd have him given an injection and put to sleep, removed from the gene pool.

But I am still very much in favor of restrictions on the types of firearms owned by civilian populace, in light of cinemas, malls and schools full of bodies.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
But I am still very much in favor of restrictions on the types of firearms owned by civilian populace, in light of cinemas, malls and schools full of bodies.

And that's the problem, really, that the "gun lobby" faces in trying to get legislation written with logic rather than emotion. If something's a spectacle, if something's sensational, people want something done about it, no matter how rare it may be or how much the statistics and other facts stand in opposition to the urge to do something.

Yep.

Murders per 100,000 population per year
USA = 4.2
Canada = 1.9
UK = 1.2
France = 1.1
Holland = 1.1
Norway = 0.6
Japan = 0.3

Guess which country doesn't have a licensing regime for guns.

Experiment 626 wrote:

I've come to see the so-called "justice system" as simply another political arena. As long as conviction rates remain high, the 'daddy-knows-best' crowd of self-centered, arrogant, high and oh-so-better-than-us mortal masses think they've done their jobs.

Plea bargins are cheap and easy ways to keep those conviction rates up.
Who cares if it means violent repeat offenders get let out within 5-10 years?! We have a 95% or whatever conviction rate!!!

Well, yeah, the justice system is grounded in the political system, so of course it is another political arena.

But it isn't just a matter of conviction rates. You also have to factor in the resources of time and money, especially relative to the net loss in public confidence to recidivism. Ultimately, if you want a justice system that pushes for a trial in all winnable cases, then the public needs to spend more money (read: raise taxes, cut other spending).

Experiment 626 wrote:

Useless trash like this fethwipe don't need life in prison, they need no more than 1-3 years waiting on Death Row.

That's just being vindictive. It makes little difference if he earns a life sentence without parole, or is put to death. Indeed, its arguable that the maintenance of the death penalty costs the state more due to the obvious procedural differences, and only serves to assuage what will, ultimately, be the very short-term irritation of its citizens.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Yep.

Murders per 100,000 population per year
USA = 4.2
Canada = 1.9
UK = 1.2
France = 1.1
Holland = 1.1
Norway = 0.6
Japan = 0.3

Guess which country doesn't have a licensing regime for guns.

Can we break that down to homicides by firearm and other types of weapon? Just curious on what that would look like.

 Seaward wrote:

And that's the problem, really, that the "gun lobby" faces in trying to get legislation written with logic rather than emotion. If something's a spectacle, if something's sensational, people want something done about it, no matter how rare it may be or how much the statistics and other facts stand in opposition to the urge to do something.

Of course, many elements of the "gun lobby" also thrive on that concept. The NRA is a prime example.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:


The kid who stabbed my cousin seven times through the heart, who still claims self defense by the way, despite witnesses testifying that he stooped over my cousin and continued to stab his chest as he lay on the floor... was sentenced to a 'massive' 15 years and can be out well before that. I'd have him given an injection and put to sleep, removed from the gene pool.

Sorry about your cousin...

Was that here or in the UK?

Total Murders per 100,000 population per year
USA = 4.2
Canada = 1.9
UK = 1.2
France = 1.1
Holland = 1.1
Australia = 1.0
Switzerland = 0.7
Norway = 0.6
Japan = 0.4

Gun Murders per 100,000 population per year
USA = 3.7
Canada = 0.76
Switzerland = 0.52
France = 0.22
Australia = 0.09
UK = 0.04
Holland = 0.04
Norway = 0.04
Japan = 0.02

Total gun deaths per 100,000 population per year
USA = 10.2
Canada = 4.78
Switzerland = 3.5
France = 3
Norway = 1.78
Holland = 1.1
Australia = 1.05
UK = 0.25
Japan = 0.07

I got these figures from Wikipedia which got them from a variety of sources such as the WHO and UN. They are not all the same year so cannot be used for precise analysis, and are presented as a general indication of the situation.

You left a pretty big "modern" nation off that list.

Russia.

Total Murders: 18 per 100,000 (more then 4 times the rate of US)

Now granted, their gun deaths are low, but that is because private gun ownership has been all but eradicated. So it's obvious that removing guns is not a simple answer to the question.

And for the record, those numbers you posted have got to be wrong. Guns are responsible for 68% of homicides in the US, but what you posted shows 88%.

 whembly wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

The kid who stabbed my cousin seven times through the heart, who still claims self defense by the way, despite witnesses testifying that he stooped over my cousin and continued to stab his chest as he lay on the floor... was sentenced to a 'massive' 15 years and can be out well before that. I'd have him given an injection and put to sleep, removed from the gene pool.

Sorry about your cousin...

Was that here or in the UK?

He was killed in the UK, outside a nightclub in Yorkshire. His girlfriend's ex had waited for them for 3 hours outside with a 'combat knife' and as they left the club, the guy jumped him and stabbed him, he fell to the ground and the guy continued to stab him through the chest several more times as he lay on the floor. This was witnessed by several club goers and the murderer tried to claim self defense, it is his blind insistence on that which is keeping him in prison. He was sentenced to 15 years in 2002, his case was reviewed in 2011 and the review board refused to consider a reduced sentence due to his delusional claim of self defense, which holds little water when you consider my cousin hit the floor after being stabbed the first time and the murderer stooped over him and stabbed him a further 6 times deliberately. 15 years, even if he serves that full time, is ridiculous, he took a life and destroyed and I mean utterly destroyed a family. He should just have been quietly put down. I was not so close to my cousin by that time, we lived in different parts of the country and only saw each other at occasional family functions, but I remember the time before, when his family had still lived in Cornwall and we'd played together as children, he was a good kid, he didn't deserve that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

djones520 wrote:
You left a pretty big "modern" nation off that list.

Russia.

Total Murders: 18 per 100,000 (more then 4 times the rate of US)

Are you taking the piss?