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wow that was some bad luck on Abbadon great report

Mind Shackle Scarab makes Necron Destroyer Lords and Overlords insanely strong in 6th ed. It's a good counter to strong HQ's such as Abby and Typhus. Typhus getting force weapon to death by his own weapon against a single wound Destroyer Lord?! Wow!

This game was also a good assessment of how Wraithwing performs against horde. Jy2's list had 95 Zombies and not a single one was left standing towards the end of the game. The trick is to divide the horde and and concentrate attacks on a single blob.

Oblits gave me the most problems in this game. They are two wound a piece, have better armor save, and can instant kill wraiths. In general, anything with 2+ save and Str8 attacks is a good counter to Wraiths. Just be careful with the MSS Overlord.

One thing though i think the necron army here would benefit more from 2 Annihilation barges then it would from it's doomscythe

On the otherhand the beam of the doomscythe can be handy, 3 to 4 flyers seems to be the right way to play them though

 Demic25 wrote:
wow that was some bad luck on Abbadon great report

Yeah. Everything was going good at first and then, all of a sudden, everything just fell apart for me as soon as Abaddon failed that one daemon weapon attack.

 SabrX wrote:
Mind Shackle Scarab makes Necron Destroyer Lords and Overlords insanely strong in 6th ed. It's a good counter to strong HQ's such as Abby and Typhus. Typhus getting force weapon to death by his own weapon against a single wound Destroyer Lord?! Wow!

This game was also a good assessment of how Wraithwing performs against horde. Jy2's list had 95 Zombies and not a single one was left standing towards the end of the game. The trick is to divide the horde and and concentrate attacks on a single blob.

Oblits gave me the most problems in this game. They are two wound a piece, have better armor save, and can instant kill wraiths. In general, anything with 2+ save and Str8 attacks is a good counter to Wraiths. Just be careful with the MSS Overlord.

Thanks SabrX.

I'll put this in my post-game as soon as I get the chance to write it.

 Valek wrote:
One thing though i think the necron army here would benefit more from 2 Annihilation barges then it would from it's doomscythe

On the otherhand the beam of the doomscythe can be handy, 3 to 4 flyers seems to be the right way to play them though

Possibly. However, the doom scythe was his best chance to kill my oblits other than through assault. It's also good against nob bikers, TWC, paladins and similar types of units as well as parking lots and heavy armor. It's got its own niche, though currently, I much prefer the firepower of multiple AB's.

Yeah, I think 3-4 flyers is all you really need in a balanced list.

Oh well you had a good game plan. Bad dice happen and Chaos characters armed with daemon weapons will eventually fail the mastery check. Maybe next time use Horus' Claw instead for these types of situations. MSS is really bad news and gives Necron Lords a huge edge in melee (obviously).

 jy2 wrote:

I think with a slight adjustment in cost, some of the units in the dex would be more appropriate. Here are a few units/items in the necron codex and what I think their costs should actually be:

Mindshackle Scarabs 25pts

Phase Shifter 30pts

Night Scythes 120pts

Canoptek Spyders 60pts

Wraiths 45pts (but give them Reanimation Protocols). Otherwise, without RP, they are ok.

Annihilation Barge 100pts

I agree with some of those changes, MSS definitely need a cost increase and 10 seems fair, Night scythe looks better at 120 so does the A.Barge at 100. Still can't see the shifter being used even at 30pts, the only way to see that piece of wargear get used would be to reduce it to 30 and increase the cost of the weave which is probably undercosted for what it offers in this edition. Spyders don't get abused to much anymore so they don't need a price increase at 60pts each you'll see even less of them get wargear added on so I'd say 50pts is fair. Wraiths are costed about right as they are, they are good but they aren't cheap, the main issue is just how much more resilient they become with a D.Lord and thats not really the wraiths fault but more so how cheap a D.Lord can pick up a weave to cover their weaknesses, a better "fix" for wraiths would be to increase the cost of the weave on the D.Lord.

Good battle report, always enjoy a good cron win. Not too much Chaos could have done, you were playing from a huge disadvantage with your lists, crons had tons of str6 or higher to negate the benefits zombies give you and with 2+, 3++, or hiding in transports your hell turkey didn't really have anything it could shoot at and with MSS on his characters to counter your powerful characters, everything in the necron army was a counter to your chaos army. The only thing fighting at full effectiveness were the oblits and the spawns.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Oh well you had a good game plan. Bad dice happen and Chaos characters armed with daemon weapons will eventually fail the mastery check. Maybe next time use Horus' Claw instead for these types of situations. MSS is really bad news and gives Necron Lords a huge edge in melee (obviously).

The only problem was that I was fighting against a T5 character with 2+ save. Against him, it's better to take the 1 in 6 chance with the daemon weapon especially when the opponent has no invuln.

Punisher wrote:
I agree with some of those changes, MSS definitely need a cost increase and 10 seems fair, Night scythe looks better at 120 so does the A.Barge at 100. Still can't see the shifter being used even at 30pts, the only way to see that piece of wargear get used would be to reduce it to 30 and increase the cost of the weave which is probably undercosted for what it offers in this edition. Spyders don't get abused to much anymore so they don't need a price increase at 60pts each you'll see even less of them get wargear added on so I'd say 50pts is fair. Wraiths are costed about right as they are, they are good but they aren't cheap, the main issue is just how much more resilient they become with a D.Lord and thats not really the wraiths fault but more so how cheap a D.Lord can pick up a weave to cover their weaknesses, a better "fix" for wraiths would be to increase the cost of the weave on the D.Lord.

Good battle report, always enjoy a good cron win. Not too much Chaos could have done, you were playing from a huge disadvantage with your lists, crons had tons of str6 or higher to negate the benefits zombies give you and with 2+, 3++, or hiding in transports your hell turkey didn't really have anything it could shoot at and with MSS on his characters to counter your powerful characters, everything in the necron army was a counter to your chaos army. The only thing fighting at full effectiveness were the oblits and the spawns.

The weave should probably be at 20pts. Even though spyders "don't get abused as much anymore", they are still undercosted for a T6 monstrous creature that can keep on producing free models every turn. And then they have Smash attacks that can kill IC's in combat. Look at it this way, for 150pts, you are getting a T6 MC with 9 Wounds and 6 attacks and who can produce 9W of models every turn. Even 60pts is a steal for them. It just goes to show how good the necron codex is. Even excellent units like spyders and scarabs aren't really used as much because there are other better units in the codex.

Yeah, necrons are a handful for most armies to deal with. Wraith-spam really needs volume of attacks/fire to beat them and that is one thing this army lacks.

I prefer to attach Typhus to MoN Oblits and deep strike them. I'm not sold on more than two zombie blobs in an army... They can only do so much and Plague Marines are really really awesome.

Oh the demon weapon is definitely better against the dlord, but the talon is better against wraiths.

I'm still not sold on zombies, the whole necron army denied their FNP. At least regular cultist can shoot and you can put a fearless HQ in there.

 Tarrasq wrote:
Oh the demon weapon is definitely better against the dlord, but the talon is better against wraiths.

I'm still not sold on zombies, the whole necron army denied their FNP. At least regular cultist can shoot and you can put a fearless HQ in there.

Not many armies have access to high volume of Str6 or higher to negate T3 FNP. A single unit of 30 zombies only cost 150 points. An army not equipped to counter Fearless FNP Horde will be overwhelmed. Necrons happens to be one of the few that can deal hordes of zombies. It takes metallic zombies to defeat fleshy zombies.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I prefer to attach Typhus to MoN Oblits and deep strike them. I'm not sold on more than two zombie blobs in an army... They can only do so much and Plague Marines are really really awesome.

My only issue with that is that Typhus can be ID'd whereas Abaddon couldn't. And in my games against SabrX so far, all his armies had a way to ID Typhus - either with Tau broadsides, PK Warboss, smashing MC's or D-lord MSS which can force Typhus to force weapon himself to death. However, if my opponent had no way to do that to Typhus, then I would DS him with the oblits.

Also, deepstriking against this necron list isn't really useful. With the mobility of the wraiths and flyers, they can very easily get away from Typhus if they needed to. Then you've got 2 D-lords and 18 wraiths against the rest of the army sans Typhus and 1 unit of oblits.

Too many zombies are probably not the most competitive as they unbalance the army. However, they could be a lot of fun to play. Ideally, I'd probably go with 1 large block of zombies and just 1 min-sized unit of zombies for objective camping. Then add more shooting to the army in the form of plague marines or add another unit of heldrake.

 SabrX wrote:

 Tarrasq wrote:
Oh the demon weapon is definitely better against the dlord, but the talon is better against wraiths.

I'm still not sold on zombies, the whole necron army denied their FNP. At least regular cultist can shoot and you can put a fearless HQ in there.

Not many armies have access to high volume of Str6 or higher to negate T3 FNP. A single unit of 30 zombies only cost 150 points. An army not equipped to counter Fearless FNP Horde will be overwhelmed. Necrons happens to be one of the few that can deal hordes of zombies. It takes metallic zombies to defeat fleshy zombies.

Correct. More armies than not just won't be equipped to deal with so many ablative wounds supporting 2 deathstars. Only a few builds can handle them, with wraithwing necrons being one of them. Is my Double-Trouble chaos list balanced? No. What it is an army that will provide matchup problems to many armies out there but which would also have problems against some armies.

However, I may consider regular cultists to accompany Abaddon in the future. With them being able to run, I may trade out some resiliency for some mobility and shooting.