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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/11 12:41:27
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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How is movement 10 slow? Flying sphinxes are savage
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Nurgle Daemons blog
http://nurglestally.blogspot.ie/
Chaos Dwarfs 8/5/1 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/11 20:21:59
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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The best units in the book are the ones you see most. That translates to archers, necroknigts and chariots. Carrion can make an appearance. The footslogging list is too fragile to be viable. If one round of combat goes well for your opponent it can mean you fall apart. And anyone who says Necroknights have no staying power, you're playing them wrong. They should be winning combats you put them in. As such you max out your chances of letting them win. This means 3 units of 6 and a level 4 light.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 01:08:32
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Perhaps it is what I am sending them against. Goblin giant spiders, cannon balls and vampire multi charge. ^_^
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 01:11:10
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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timetowaste85 wrote:
And the Sphinxes are bad-slow as crap, your opponent should be able to out-maneuver them with any cavalry. Only thing they have going for them is the T8.
Necrosphinxs fly man. Sure they can't march, but fly makes them the fastest model in the army.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/12 01:11:24
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 01:16:14
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Grey Templar wrote: timetowaste85 wrote:
And the Sphinxes are bad-slow as crap, your opponent should be able to out-maneuver them with any cavalry. Only thing they have going for them is the T8.
Necrosphinxs fly man. Sure they can't march, but fly makes them the fastest model in the army.
It can make a normal movement if you cast The signature spell of the TK on it, then it can make another movement as it desires.
It has a 20" standard movement range essentially, same as if they had a march.
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This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2013/02/12 01:20:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 01:40:11
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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Niiai wrote:Perhaps it is what I am sending them against. Goblin giant spiders, cannon balls and vampire multi charge. ^_^
That is part of the problem. Necroknights are effective against the same things tomb guard and skeleton warriors are. Except they are more durable. They have a higher base damage output, due to the snakes and riders getting more wounds through and have a higher toughness. Then you have buffs. The same buffs tomb guard and skeleton warriors need, these guys can have to make them even better.
If Tomb guard had one more attack, or heavy armour then they would compete with necroknights. But as it stands, you're better off with the knights.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 13:06:04
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Exept if they are the only cannon target and your oponent has a lot of cannons. Then TG are better.
Also, they do not have the same spot as skeltons. Skeletons are speedbumps, dies slowly to other core or are great for stalling monsters.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/12 13:07:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 14:08:37
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Sinister Shapeshifter
The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.
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Niiai wrote:Exept if they are the only cannon target and your oponent has a lot of cannons. Then TG are better.
Tomb guard are a fun unit. Nothing more. Nothing less. Whilst cannons may kill a necroknight each turn, your opponent has to focus on one of the units to deal with it. Unless you play dwarves, then you castle more than 48" away as he doesn't have great cannons.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 15:00:02
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Speed Drybrushing
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timetowaste85 wrote: Niiai wrote:Stalkers are OK. In my experience they are better on paper then in realaty. Good for popping up and killing a unit, but they will not win you the game.
I...um...what? No. Ow. My brain.
Nothing in the army will win you the game by itself. But they will ruin the day of a low initiative army/unit. Pick your targets.
Niiai wrote:Sphinxes are very good. Especialy the battlekitty who comes with attacks, thunderstomp, fire breath and 4 dudes with killingblow on top. Those dudes are S5 on the charge. The problem being that they will attrackt a lott of warmachine fire. Also, most armies have some way to deal with his thoughnes.
And the Sphinxes are bad-slow as crap, your opponent should be able to out-maneuver them with any cavalry. Only thing they have going for them is the T8.
YOU contradict yourself a bit here. Stalkers are only good vs low initiative things everyone should take them. If he only plays against Elves or empire, they wouldn't do much of anythig. Against most armies, they will need 6's to wound anyway. With an average of 6 hits you should plan on 1 wound per stalker. The problem with stalkers, as with the entire army is that their point cost is higher than expected, they don't fight very well, or have a decent save and they crumble really fast.
The sphinxes are movement 6 which is 1-2 more than most infantry and 1-2 slower than most cav. Ogres are movement 6. It's not slow, its not super fast, but it gets the job done. There are a lot of armies that have no cav or that rarely take cav, because hordes of troops is better. The Warsphinx is designed to take on infantry. Just as you stated, one unit will not win you the game. But a warsphinx CAN put out a lot of damage and is hard to wound (6's for most troops) and is a relatively good buy compared to a lot of the unit choices.
Tomb Guard, for example, are a terrible buy for their point cost.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 15:49:04
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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I know tomb guards are terible on paper but I keep beating up things I normaly should not be able to beat up. It might just be luck though.
As for the sphinxes, while I do not use them (my oponent can just archer it to death, or has poison, or a cannon, or kills it with gnoblars etc.) they are very mobile as they can turn freely. Only carrion and skelton archers, sphinxes, swarms and scorpions can do this. I know witch one I prefer.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 15:55:53
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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Against S3 armies, scorpions hold up units pretty well, and I have found them to be of excellent value since the most recent FAQ.
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3000
4000 Deamons - Mainly a fantasy army now.
Tomb Kings-2500 Escalation League for 2012
href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311987.page ">Painting and Modeling Blog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/12 16:03:30
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
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buckero0 wrote: timetowaste85 wrote: Niiai wrote:Stalkers are OK. In my experience they are better on paper then in realaty. Good for popping up and killing a unit, but they will not win you the game.
I...um...what? No. Ow. My brain.
Nothing in the army will win you the game by itself. But they will ruin the day of a low initiative army/unit. Pick your targets.
Niiai wrote:Sphinxes are very good. Especialy the battlekitty who comes with attacks, thunderstomp, fire breath and 4 dudes with killingblow on top. Those dudes are S5 on the charge. The problem being that they will attrackt a lott of warmachine fire. Also, most armies have some way to deal with his thoughnes.
And the Sphinxes are bad-slow as crap, your opponent should be able to out-maneuver them with any cavalry. Only thing they have going for them is the T8.
YOU contradict yourself a bit here. Stalkers are only good vs low initiative things everyone should take them. If he only plays against Elves or empire, they wouldn't do much of anythig. Against most armies, they will need 6's to wound anyway. With an average of 6 hits you should plan on 1 wound per stalker. The problem with stalkers, as with the entire army is that their point cost is higher than expected, they don't fight very well, or have a decent save and they crumble really fast.
The sphinxes are movement 6 which is 1-2 more than most infantry and 1-2 slower than most cav. Ogres are movement 6. It's not slow, its not super fast, but it gets the job done. There are a lot of armies that have no cav or that rarely take cav, because hordes of troops is better. The Warsphinx is designed to take on infantry. Just as you stated, one unit will not win you the game. But a warsphinx CAN put out a lot of damage and is hard to wound (6's for most troops) and is a relatively good buy compared to a lot of the unit choices.
Tomb Guard, for example, are a terrible buy for their point cost.
I don't contradict myself: in a previous post, I also mentioned they were great against artillery crew. Elves and empire have them too. Use them against what they're built to take on: 95% of the armies out there have something they should be sent after. Oh, and they can add a rear charge to add +2 combat res as backup to somebody else's charge. They are not useful against everything, but they have a place against most armies out there. Just like every other unit in the game, pick your targets wisely.
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Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.
Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.
Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/13 00:42:04
Subject: Re:Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
Livingston, United Kingdom
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I'm sorry, but there is some utter mince being spouted here.
Necropolis Knights are good, yes; but they are not very durable. T4 and 3+ armour can be very easily negated, most notably by S5 and above. It isn't pretty when you get into melee with great weapons or bloodletters; they wound on 3+, and suddenly you are down to a 5+ armour save. You can't really afford to let many magic missiles or artillery shells hit them. This then leads to the next problem with the unit, namely that they are difficult to heal - you'll restore 1/3 of a model per magic phase, maximum.
Tomb Guard, by comparison, are far easier to heal, and thus synergize much better with the Nehek lore. They are - like much of the book - slightly overcosted, but once you give them the character support that TK infantry revolves around they more than perform their task. In comparison with the NK, they are healed easier; put out more attacks and possess more wounds per point *; work better (i.e. can be joined by) our characters easier; are better at defeating steadfast units by dint of possessing ranks.
The comparison isn't fair without considering that they are two different unit types. Tomb Guard are an infantry block, seemingly designed to be run in a horde with a Necrotect and royalty, buffed by the Nehek lore. They engage and destroy enemy infantry cheerfully. They are not very good at dealing with monsters, being thundercrushed and not wounding easily (though I will grant that I run sword + board; halberds would be better). The snakes are monstrous cavalry - fast for our book, very heavy, capable of really putting the hurt out. They rely upon a decent armour save, which is easily circumvented, to prevent damage, and will rarely match the static combat res of an infantry unit. They are better buffed by the Lore of Light, which will allow them to strike before their enemies and thus reduce the damage that they would otherwise take. With poison, the snakes are somewhat better versus monsters and won't take the thundercrush and whatnot, though the casket is still the go-to unit for this.
Ideally you'd take both units; I do so, running 6 snakes and 38 Tomb Guard led by a Prince and a Necrotect. So far, in my games since I bought the Necropolis Knights, the Tomb Guard have done all of the heavy lifting and destroyed enemy units; the snakes have usually failed to live up to their expectation and points value. They are cheaper than the Tomb Guard unit - 420pts to 448pts+200pts of characters - but the fact remains that the Tomb Guard have taken on and destroyed everything that I've thrown them at, with the exception of Bloodletters who I despise. People who say that they are not worthwhile seem to be dealing with a different unit from me.
* Point comparison. 65 points gets you one snake, with 3+2 attacks and 3 wounds. 65 points of Tomb Guard is 1 point off having 6 models, who have 6 attacks and 6 wounds. 420 points - the cost of 6 snakes with full command - will get you 31 attacks and 18 wounds. 420 points of Tomb Guard with full command will get you 35 models, possessing 36 attacks and 35 wounds. The Tomb Guard can very easily be buffed by Hatred from a Necrotect, can get WS5/6 from royalty, and have a 6++ parry save. The real benefit of the snakes is M7, stomp, and the KB/Poison combination - in short, the ability to move quickly and do lots of damage.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/14 23:32:48
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Been Around the Block
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I've played Tomb Kings since the new Army Book came out last year so I'll post some of my thoughts.
The Khalida-Archeryspam list is cute, and can make 50/50 matchups into lopsided shooty you're dead matchups, but its not going to cut nicely against Lizardmen, Ogres, or WoC if built properly.
People here who are bashing Necropolis Knights have some points, but I'm going to tell you flat out that they're good in the front, obscene in the flank, and unfair in the rear. I'm also ballsy enough to take 3 with Entomb for most of my tournament lists, because they always show up, and usually route a portion of the table.
Some quick tips:
Tomb Kings are over-costed, run Princes instead.
Ramhotep the Visionary is insane, he should be default in every list.
Kitties are cute until they eat a cannonball; run them carefully.
Caskets are autorun in every list, and are just that good.
Naked Princes are very good in huge blocks of infantry
Chariots are the gak, but don't run more than nine in a block; deployment can be a nightmare
Finally, and I mean this very, very emphatically:
Lore of Nehekhara seems mediocre when you first read it, and people like to bash on it a lot. But it is in my opinion one of the very best Lores in the game, and I think it is by far the best Army-specific lore.
The signature spell is useful at spam-regenerating
Killing blow on huge blocks of Warriors or Archers makes elite infantry armies (High Elves, WoC) cry.
5+ Ward Saves, 'nuff said.
+1 Attacks or Multiple Shot (2), 'nuff said
-1 S/T or d3 S/T, gives you a lot of punching-power with units that ordinary can struggle. It is the knock-out punch in a Khalida build, and will decisively win combat for you
The dangerous terrain/movement hitter is useful when you just need to keep things away; good against Bloodletters, good against Lizardmen, good against Ogres. One of the weaker spells though
Skullstorm is the worst spell in the entire lore, and even then, it does wonders against horde armies, and has a very low casting cost.
Take lore of Nehek, use it often. Tomb Kings are the finesse undead army, Vampires are the forceful ones. While many consider Tomb Kings weak, or lower-tier, I think they require an extremely skilled player to run correctly. Your success and failures will be largely determined during list-construction and deployment, moreso than a lot of armies. That being said, at tournaments, I tend to be very concerned about playing Tomb Kings, because usually the only people who bring them to tournaments are either Khalida-spammers, who I can beat, or very, very skilled Generals, who are nightmares.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/14 23:44:01
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Thanks thundering for sharing some good insight. :-)
You are also hitting a nail on the head. While most of our units seems over costed or bad on paper there comes a magic when you run them all together. I can not explain it. It just really works for some reason. As far as the lore go I like it. My favored spell is the killing blow spell. While awsome in it's own right I use it to heal. Often in a big bubble since it is not so hard to cast. I also like the dangerous terrain/movement spell a lot. It is great for slowing down your opponent. in the early turns.
Also remember you can cast skull storm though your own units. Vortexes do not target.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 00:01:50
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets
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Niiai wrote:Thanks thundering for sharing some good insight. :-)
You are also hitting a nail on the head. While most of our units seems over costed or bad on paper there comes a magic when you run them all together. I can not explain it. It just really works for some reason. As far as the lore go I like it. My favored spell is the killing blow spell. While awsome in it's own right I use it to heal. Often in a big bubble since it is not so hard to cast. I also like the dangerous terrain/movement spell a lot. It is great for slowing down your opponent. in the early turns.
The reason people take them off is because it is the most Synergistic army in the entire game, after which would come empire.
You cannot objectively look at TK's units without looking at the big picture. The small pictures add up into the big picture afterall.
Also remember you can cast skull storm though your own units. Vortexes do not target.
It can also block charge lanes, since you can't charge through it.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/15 00:02:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 00:39:47
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
The best State-Texas
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Great post Thundering! I hope you continue to post more TK related things here!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 08:13:01
Subject: Re:Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Charles Rampant wrote:
Necropolis Knights are good, yes; but they are not very durable. T4 and 3+ armour can be very easily negated, most notably by S5 and above. It isn't pretty when you get into melee with great weapons or bloodletters; they wound on 3+, and suddenly you are down to a 5+ armour save.
Tomb Guard, by comparison, are far easier to heal, and thus synergize much better with the Nehek lore. They are - like much of the book - slightly overcosted, but once you give them the character support that TK infantry revolves around they more than perform their task.
This isn't really the way it works. The cheapest attacks and wounds of any army book in the game is their cheapest core. Period. If you want nothing but max attacks and max wounds per points, there is nothing that comes anywhere near buying core. But there's lots of reasons to buy your non-crappiest units. Your crappiest troops generally are...crappy. They offer very little point protection other than being lots of them. They are clunky and unmaneuverable and despite having lots of attacks, don't often succeed in wounding unless they are also fighting chaff. A warsphinx has 5 attacks + 3.5 from thunderestomp and 8 wounds. But you could use those points and buy 56 attacks and 56 wounds with your basic skeletons. So clearly no one would ever buy a warsphinx, right? Picking the worst/best case against each unit isn't a good way to evaluate them. Necro Knights are MC that are inline with the new 8th super MC, like gryphons and mournfang and crushers. They would lose to Mournfang but they could do better vs. elite and semi-elite because of higher WS and KB and Poison.
Ushabti aren't bad. I had re-evaluated them. They are Ironguts in every way but cost about 20% more. For that they are +1I + WS -1M can be regen, have all the undead stuff, and have either a great weapon, Bow with insane range or AHW. And can't have banner and stuff. I think Mournfang would be afraid to charge them if they could get a shot or 2 off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/15 13:15:55
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Nimble Skeleton Charioteer
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Thundering, thanks for saying everything I was thinking. I bought the new TK book when it came out for an escalation league and love it. Haven't touched my high elves since. Your experiences have clearly paralleled my own.
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It's spelled "cavalry." NOT "calvary." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 04:18:12
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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Though I've just started my TK after a switch from 40k, there's a couple things I'd like to add:
1) People love to say that "you shouldn't ever rely on magic," but with TK you're about as close to being able to as is possible. The Lore of Nek spells are all quite low casting value, and with a level 4 + Casket (which most agree is auto-take) you're looking at an average 9-die magic phase. Add in a Hierotitan and suddenly that Lvl 4 is a lvl 5-7. With 9 dispel dice against your opponent's four you're quite reliably going to get at least a couple spells off, since you'll most likely be two-dicing them and they'll have to throw all four at one spell to reliably dispel you.
You can even one-die spells if you're desperate (say, on a bad winds roll). Lvl 4 + Hierotitan and you have 67% chance on KB and signature, or 61% on ward save or +1A/multishot(2). Not too shabby in a pinch, right?
2) Remember that IF does nothing to your casket. Light of Death is an "innate" bound spell, meaning you don't roll on the miscast table and IF just means " the model simply cannot cast further bound spells this turn" - BRB p37. Since it only HAS one bound spell it means literally nothing other than that your opponent can't dispel it. So if you can't think of anything else to do with your magic dice just throw them all at the casket.
3) If you *are* going to be relying on magic, then Khatep is a good buy. Loremaster means you can pick your spells and tailor them to the particular enemy you're facing. That's a pretty powerful tactical advantage.
4) Huge blocks of skellies with a prince is quite cheap and surprisingly effective. Your opponents will scoff at your WS2, S3/T3, I2 horde. That is, until they realize the prince makes them WS 5, the light mage makes them WS10/I10 or ASF/+1A, and the Nehek mage makes them KB, +1A, and/or 5+ ward. Not to mention that each of those spells is bringing back 2-4 skittles a turn (starting with the Champ, remember, so you can keep throwing him at challenges if it pleases you). "Just kill the Prince" they'll say, but it's amazing how well a T5 character can hold up. Especially if you give him some defensive items.
In a game I played this weekend that unit steamrolled 200 points of dwarves, then held off against 1,000+ points with two characters for 3 whole turns while my TG mopped up the rest and bailed them out. Not too shabby for 4 point skeletons. Just remember to take at least 50.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/27 22:42:29
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Stubborn Hammerer
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I have found that leaving the Sphinxes behind is best. And using a list based more on Tomb Guard, Necropolis Knights, and all the archers that can fit in with Core. As well as of course a Level 4 Liche with Death, and a Prince.
I tried out a Warsphinx, and it was good for the first turnor two, but afterwards became flanked and vulnerable, and was run down. Simply not good for the points. But I may simply need to use it in a different way.
I do want to use the Necrosphinx, with the flying, even if it is only 10in max, and the Heroic Killing Blow and high toughness make it seem more worth it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 02:26:56
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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Mountain-Breaker wrote:I do want to use the Necrosphinx, with the flying, even if it is only 10in max, and the Heroic Killing Blow and high toughness make it seem more worth it.
Ugh, this is something I'm struggling with too. I'm just starting to put together my TK (so far I've been proxying matches to try stuff out), and I'm agonizing over whether to turn my sphinx kit into a war or necro sphinx. The added benefit of the warsphinx is that I was going to use the torso to make my Hierotitan. Otherwise I'm going to have to get more creative (or be even more broke  )
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 03:04:54
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Stubborn Hammerer
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Yeah same problems here. Though I think I will just lose it for now. And see how games go with more Necropolis Knights, Tomb Guard, and maybe some Stalkers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 06:55:15
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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Indeed. I'm considering a unit of 3 entombed knights with a champ as my replacement. No riskier than deepstriking terminators, and a unit of knights in someone's rear is bound to give any opponent some worries.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 14:23:38
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:Though I've just started my TK after a switch from 40k, there's a couple things I'd like to add:
1) People love to say that "you shouldn't ever rely on magic," but with TK you're about as close to being able to as is possible. The Lore of Nek spells are all quite low casting value, and with a level 4 + Casket (which most agree is auto-take) you're looking at an average 9-die magic phase. Add in a Hierotitan and suddenly that Lvl 4 is a lvl 5-7. With 9 dispel dice against your opponent's four you're quite reliably going to get at least a couple spells off, since you'll most likely be two-dicing them and they'll have to throw all four at one spell to reliably dispel you.
You can even one-die spells if you're desperate (say, on a bad winds roll). Lvl 4 + Hierotitan and you have 67% chance on KB and signature, or 61% on ward save or +1A/multishot(2). Not too shabby in a pinch, right?
2) Remember that IF does nothing to your casket. Light of Death is an "innate" bound spell, meaning you don't roll on the miscast table and IF just means " the model simply cannot cast further bound spells this turn" - BRB p37. Since it only HAS one bound spell it means literally nothing other than that your opponent can't dispel it. So if you can't think of anything else to do with your magic dice just throw them all at the casket.
3) If you *are* going to be relying on magic, then Khatep is a good buy. Loremaster means you can pick your spells and tailor them to the particular enemy you're facing. That's a pretty powerful tactical advantage.
4) Huge blocks of skellies with a prince is quite cheap and surprisingly effective. Your opponents will scoff at your WS2, S3/T3, I2 horde. That is, until they realize the prince makes them WS 5, the light mage makes them WS10/I10 or ASF/+1A, and the Nehek mage makes them KB, +1A, and/or 5+ ward. Not to mention that each of those spells is bringing back 2-4 skittles a turn (starting with the Champ, remember, so you can keep throwing him at challenges if it pleases you). "Just kill the Prince" they'll say, but it's amazing how well a T5 character can hold up. Especially if you give him some defensive items.
In a game I played this weekend that unit steamrolled 200 points of dwarves, then held off against 1,000+ points with two characters for 3 whole turns while my TG mopped up the rest and bailed them out. Not too shabby for 4 point skeletons. Just remember to take at least 50.
Good run down on the Magic. I would love to add that having Arkhan + casket+ Hierotitan+ lvl2 nehek at 2k allows complete domination of the magic phase. I was able to essentially buble soulblight at anytime with 4 dice easily. No characters made it into combat with my units, allowing more failed fear tests to doom and darkness. My horde of 50 sword and board dudes with prince and necotect was usually getting hit on 5's by s3 troops keeping their full save.
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3000
4000 Deamons - Mainly a fantasy army now.
Tomb Kings-2500 Escalation League for 2012
href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311987.page ">Painting and Modeling Blog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 18:50:43
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Stubborn Hammerer
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I have considered using the Entombed Knights. I feel like that is probably the best way to run them. Even though the focus of artillary may turn towards the Tomb Guard, that is my only real concern. However when the Knights arrive it will make up for losses. Automatically Appended Next Post: I am also still skeptical about running a sword and board type army, with just horde after horde.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/28 18:52:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 19:42:39
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
Livingston, United Kingdom
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Acardia wrote: I would love to add that having Arkhan + casket+ Hierotitan+ lvl2 nehek at 2k allows complete domination of the magic phase.
At the low, low cost of 775, you probably should.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 20:43:42
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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Charles Rampant wrote: Acardia wrote: I would love to add that having Arkhan + casket+ Hierotitan+ lvl2 nehek at 2k allows complete domination of the magic phase.
At the low, low cost of 775, you probably should.
I don't know, you can't really think about it that way. Just a casket and a level 4 is 345 points, and gives you a magic phase that most opponents will be able to shut down a significant portion of the time. You'll get a few spells off, but probably not the important ones, and probably not when you need them.
Throw a Hierotitan into that mix and now you suddenly have a level 5-7 casting with a minimum of 2 dice more than your opponent has dispell dice. You're at 520 some odd points now, but you have a magic phase that you'll actually be able to rely on. Yeah it's 175 extra points, but it is also making those 345 that you initially spent more worthwhile.
Arkhan plus a second wizard is only 775 on top of that, so the question is only how much extra benefit you're getting out of that last 235 points. The level two gives you two extra spells and an extra channel attempt, which can both utilize the power of the HT and Casket that you've *already* paid for. With four spells on a twelve-die magic phase you'll probably just use more dice than you need on everything and throw 6 dice at Light of Death, but with 6 spells you'll have a big range of stuff that you can throw two dice at, while forcing your opponent to throw four to dispell any one of them.
Add Arkhan to the mix and now you have a level 6-8 wizard who can suck unused dispell dice into his magic phase and just *dominate*. That's not something to shake a stick at. Heck, I'd pay 50-85 points just for that ability alone. Plus he gets an extra spell, and doesn't lose his level when he miscasts. Can't go wrong there.
So if you're ALREADY spending 500+ points on magic just to make your TK army useable. Probably more like 600 once you add in arcane items and such. Is 175 points really so much to spend for an extra wizard, and extra wizard level, and the ability to pull dice out of your dispel pool if you decide against using them? If you can find use for Lore of Death, I'd say definitely. If Arkhan used Lore of Light he would be in every single one of my army lists. As it stands I lean away from taking him just because I need Nehek and Light so much. But still...build an army around him and he's a beast.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 20:52:18
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Inspiring Icon Bearer
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PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote: Charles Rampant wrote: Acardia wrote: I would love to add that having Arkhan + casket+ Hierotitan+ lvl2 nehek at 2k allows complete domination of the magic phase.
At the low, low cost of 775, you probably should.
I don't know, you can't really think about it that way. Just a casket and a level 4 is 345 points, and gives you a magic phase that most opponents will be able to shut down a significant portion of the time. You'll get a few spells off, but probably not the important ones, and probably not when you need them.
Throw a Hierotitan into that mix and now you suddenly have a level 5-7 casting with a minimum of 2 dice more than your opponent has dispell dice. You're at 520 some odd points now, but you have a magic phase that you'll actually be able to rely on. Yeah it's 175 extra points, but it is also making those 345 that you initially spent more worthwhile.
Arkhan plus a second wizard is only 775 on top of that, so the question is only how much extra benefit you're getting out of that last 235 points. The level two gives you two extra spells and an extra channel attempt, which can both utilize the power of the HT and Casket that you've *already* paid for. With four spells on a twelve-die magic phase you'll probably just use more dice than you need on everything and throw 6 dice at Light of Death, but with 6 spells you'll have a big range of stuff that you can throw two dice at, while forcing your opponent to throw four to dispell any one of them.
Add Arkhan to the mix and now you have a level 6-8 wizard who can suck unused dispell dice into his magic phase and just *dominate*. That's not something to shake a stick at. Heck, I'd pay 50-85 points just for that ability alone. Plus he gets an extra spell, and doesn't lose his level when he miscasts. Can't go wrong there.
So if you're ALREADY spending 500+ points on magic just to make your TK army useable. Probably more like 600 once you add in arcane items and such. Is 175 points really so much to spend for an extra wizard, and extra wizard level, and the ability to pull dice out of your dispel pool if you decide against using them? If you can find use for Lore of Death, I'd say definitely. If Arkhan used Lore of Light he would be in every single one of my army lists. As it stands I lean away from taking him just because I need Nehek and Light so much. But still...build an army around him and he's a beast.
Yeah it's pricy. But look at this. Arkhan is LD9 he gives good LD as a general, but having him take Hiero/ Gen duties is poor. Take a prince LD9 in other unit. Still have LD9 for spirit leech. He regenerates PD through death. The Hierotitan has LD 8 for his Spiritleech and casket spell. Anything with low LD is not surviving. Shem's is often overlooked, it's a great MM and excels at clearing out chaff. Putting a wound on hellpit/hydra before the 6 dice casket.
Arkhan and 19 archers actually can win combats against mediocre to crap, he's T5 if you focus on Soulblight and D&D most oppoents ate going to need 5's and 6's to wound him. Keep in mind characters have been sniped by the time you engage.
Hierotitan isn't a boss nor slouch in combat. T6 is good enough against t4 or less, units that are really deep ranked up give him troubles, however I more often then not charge him into who every my big unit is fighting to help break it. I've had him drop a ghoul king twice once in combat, once with shems.
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3000
4000 Deamons - Mainly a fantasy army now.
Tomb Kings-2500 Escalation League for 2012
href="http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/311987.page ">Painting and Modeling Blog
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/02/28 22:10:17
Subject: Tomb Kings in 8th Edition.
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
Livingston, United Kingdom
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I'm sorry, but 800 points spent on magic is simply unacceptably high in a 2k game. You may have a great magic phase, but I'm unconvinced that you'll have anything else going for you. What happens if Arkhan bites it due to a feedback scroll? How about if you play Dwarves, or simply someone who rolls good on his dispel dice? I know that TK need magic to buff them, but they also need an army to be buffed.
For me, the army needs to be treated as one that wins games with solid units backed up by magic, not as an army that wins with magic. That suggests that spending nearly 40% of your points allowance simply to get a good magic phase is the wrong approach.
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