IG platoons and hw squads

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**KplKeegan**

Griddlelol wrote:Those large profile targets happen to be two very different beasts. A plasma gun is also a multi-task weapon, it can take down MCs and heavy armored troops, but struggles with vehicles. See how MC killing power =/= tank killing power?

It doesn't matter. It is a single shot, strength 9 weapon. The Las Cannons chief role is killing Large Profile Targets. Heavy vehicles and Monsterous Creatures are Large Profile Targets. Hence they are one in the same regardless of what else can or can't kill it or what its stats are.

The sole reason why Guard players have the mentality is because they can field the things en mass.

Relying is a bit strong. Also good luck taking down a CCS quickly. A chimera behind cover with camo-netting can keep them alive for a long time. If not, there's always an ADL and GTG. They're not as easy to kill as you make out. I've had them survive long enough for BID and FOMT to have big effects on the battle.

Two turns of enemy shooting, maybe three, depending on where your Company Commander is placed. We can nit-pick the details and hypotheticals all day, but the reality is that a small unit presence and T3 models does not help the Commpany Command to survive long enough against an experienced opponent.

**Griddlelol**

KplKeegan wrote:

It doesn't matter. It is a single shot, strength 9 weapon. The Las Cannons chief role is killing Large Profile Targets. Heavy vehicles and Monsterous Creatures are Large Profile Targets. Hence they are one in the same regardless of what else can or can't kill it or what its stats are.

That's semantics. You're labeling tanks and MCs as "high/large profile" targets, whereas I'm separating them into distinct niches, considering that they are affected by different weapons in different ways. For example: A manticore will have trouble killing a Hive Tyrant, but it has no trouble KOing a Land Raider. Just like the Lascannon has fun with MCs and Tanks, but takes a lot to kill TEQ.

Two turns of enemy shooting, maybe three, depending on where your Company Commander is placed. We can nit-pick the details and hypotheticals all day, but the reality is that a small unit presence and T3 models does not help the Commpany Command to survive long enough against an experienced opponent.

2 to 3 turns is enough to have an effect in my opinion. They rarely survive all 5 turns though, that's for sure.

**frogy27**

So i get the feel that ther will be so many verying opinions on how to use my IG That i should just use them how they would work best for me if i take them. by the way what's up with this orders thing

**CaptainGrey**

frogy27 wrote:
So i get the feel that ther will be so many verying opinions on how to use my IG That i should just use them how they would work best for me if i take them. by the way what's up with this orders thing

You'll want a blob of 30ish Guardsmen with Lascannons in it, backed by a Company Command Squad, and some Artillery behind an Aegis line.

Orders are like the Imperial Guard's version of Psychic powers, and the Company Command Squad uses them to make the troops better.

**frogy27**

So hq dies platoon can't do any thing?

**Iron Dragon**

frogy27 wrote:
So hq dies platoon can't do any thing?

Dude. Get the codex, seriously.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Iron Dragon wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
frogy27 wrote:
I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

This is something where IG differs from space marines.

In IG, there is a way we do things.

1. Infantry kill tanks.

2. Tanks kill infantry.

3. Vendettas kill everything.

Mortars aren't great because you go against what your guardsmen are good at (killing tanks) and try to do what your tanks should be doing. I know it sounds crazy, but just because IG can have our lasguns shoot like 100 shots a turn, doesn't mean they're good. Their real value is wound counters for your special and heavy weapons and bubble wrapping tanks or just area denial in general. Hence why people use our infantry to kill tanks, because they're dirt cheap and can take tons of weapons to accomplish that task.

If you like the idea of a cheap, indirect fire, and fairly accurate barrage weapon, look into griffons. They're basically a light assault mortar mounted on a chimera. They're dirt cheap and you can get 6 on the field for a paltry 450pts. And they reroll scatter if you want them to.

Griffons reroll scatter? Is that in a FAQ? I'm looking at the entry in the codex, it only says the Griffon can't fire directly is all.

Check out the accurate barrage rule. It's specified in the ordnance battery rules. Don't have my codex with me but if you have yours just look up the Griffon, it should show up pretty easily with a bit of reading. Lets you reroll your scatter dice if you're unhappy with where it hit. Extremely handy, and gives you a 50%+ chance of scoring a direct hit, awesome for sniping things out of a unit.

frogy27 wrote:How in the heck does inf kill tanks tanks kill tanks inf kills inf

Try this mindset out sometime with your IG list. You'd be surprised at just how literally cut and dry it is. Give all your infantry anti tank weaponry of some sort (lascannons, autocannons, plasma, melta) and outfit all your fire support vehicles to kill infantry of various flavors. It's not so much that our infantry can't kill other infantry, or that our tanks kill enemy tanks, it's just that it's not nearly as points efficient. I have no idea why our codex works that way, it just does.

Yes, lasguns can kill infantry. They're nowhere near as good at it point for point as a dedicated tank or ordance platform is though. Vice versa goes for tanks firing at tanks. Even our dedicated anti tank tank (vanquisher) is nowhere near as effective as a couple of meltavet squads, or a suicide stormtrooper squad with meltas. On the flipside, look at how much damage 30 guardsmen with lasguns can do rapid firing into a unit of gaunts. Now, look at the damage two griffons can do (they're the same price). The griffons have double the range, are more survivable, kill models from the center of the template out, are more accurate, and have better AP and double the strength.

It's just how our codex works. Doesn't matter if you run mech vets, foot guard, hybrid, whatever. If you're playing IG, you probably already do this to some degree in your lists and just don't realize it yet.

Holy crap, haha. I was looking at the page on the right, that lists the different artillery chassis. I never even noticed the extra blurb on the other page. Wow. Thanks, I feel like a dummy.

**CaptainGrey**

frogy27 wrote:
So hq dies platoon can't do any thing?

HQ Dies, Platoon doesn't have those buffs and has to be used differently.

It becomes less of a deathstar-cannon, and more of a fire-support unit.

**frogy27**

Oh still not shure i want to add IG as allies as no oned made a point how the would be useful in roles want maby all add some tau as i have there codex and couple fire warrior squads that form i nice fire base just tau lack infy hw

**CaptainGrey**

frogy27 wrote:
Oh still not shure i want to add IG as allies as no oned made a point how the would be useful in roles want maby all add some tau as i have there codex and couple fire warrior squads that form i nice fire base just tau lack infy hw

-Wants an infantry firebase
-IG Blobs are the best infantry firebase available
-"No one said IG are good for what I want."

Sincerely, are you reading what everyone is saying?

IG is the best ally for what you want.

**Iron Dragon**

frogy27 wrote:
Oh still not shure i want to add IG as allies as no oned made a point how the would be useful in roles want maby all add some tau as i have there codex and couple fire warrior squads that form i nice fire base just tau lack infy hw

Okay, if you want a point. Here's one. For 240 points, you can take an infantry platoon with 3 infantry squads, combine them into one big squad and have 3 sergeants, 21 lasgunners and 3 las cannon teams. That also includes the platoon command squad, which can give a couple of orders to improve the firepower of the 21 lasgunners ( FRFSRF ). For a few points more you could add one special weapon per infantry squad also, such as a plasma gun, grenade launcher, melta or flamer. For 240-300 points, that's quite a bit of firepower and there's enough bodies in there that it is hard to tear through them all to start dealing damage on the special/heavy weapons. Additionally this unit counts as scoring and can hold objectives.

**xSPYXEx**

If you want to kill hordes, you need Punishers.

**CaptainGrey**

xSPYXEx wrote:
If you want to kill hordes, you need Punishers.

Well that's not true. 10 hits, 6-7 wounds, and armor saves allowed?

Colossi, Manticores, and Griffons are for hordes.

**KplKeegan**

xSPYXEx wrote:
If you want to kill hordes, you need Punishers.

Griffons do it waaaaaay more efficiently and for a ridiculoously lower price.

**xSPYXEx**

Yeah, but gatling guns!

**Cheesedoodler**

frogy27 wrote:
So i get the feel that ther will be so many verying opinions on how to use my IG That i should just use them how they would work best for me if i take them. by the way what's up with this orders thing

Jesus Christ...

THIS IS WHY YOU BUY THE CODEX.

Pleas, for the love of the All-Mighty, please do not try to field a detachment of guard until you have purchased AND READ the codex. I know for damn sure that I would never play against someone who didn't know the rules for their own models.

**frogy27**

Am not going to buy the guys i was just trying to see if a IG platoon help my marines out still don't no if they will help our not. but am shure allies ant that big of deal in truny armies.

**MrMoustaffa**

Trust us OP, if you want infantry to sit on a point and shoot the heck out of something, the Imperial Guard platoon is the ultimate choice you can make. No other horde infantry unit can provide the power we can, match the range of our weapons, and be a battle brother with your space marines. Not to mention it makes sense fluffwise (if you care about that) and that the IG can bring tools to handle almost problem you can imagine.

Buy the codex. It came out only a few years ago. Sadly, GW will probably not update it for AT LEAST a few more years with the way their update schedule goes, so you will get plenty of use out of it. You cannot get away with just using army builder to throw together a list and think you're good to go. You need that codex because it goes into detail about our army specific abilities and how they work. For example, the whole issue you're having understanding orders. The IG codex clearly lays out everything you need to know about them.

Basically, they work like a pyschic power, but you can only issue them to IG infantry units (no orders to space marines or vehicles of any kind) and cannot be denied. They have several specifics on how they're supposed to be used, but since they're free actions essentially, there's no reason not to use them whenever possible.

**CaptainGrey**

frogy27 wrote:
Am not going to buy the guys i was just trying to see if a IG platoon help my marines out still don't no if they will help our not. but am shure allies ant that big of deal in truny armies.

A. Please work on your spelling. I said it in the other thread, I'll repeat; it's very hard to decipher posts like this, which makes it harder to help you.

B. We've all told you already, Guard are the best for the job you are looking for. If that doesn't tell you "Guard are the best for the job you are looking for", then I don't know what else will.

Truly, to learn any more about IG, you need the Codex. I recommend, if you're against buying it, go to your FLGS and see if you can borrow someone's.

-Captain

**Happygrunt**

CaptainGrey wrote:
frogy27 wrote:
Am not going to buy the guys i was just trying to see if a IG platoon help my marines out still don't no if they will help our not. but am shure allies ant that big of deal in truny armies.

A. Please work on your spelling. I said it in the other thread, I'll repeat; it's very hard to decipher posts like this, which makes it harder to help you.

This. I still am having trouble figuring out what you are saying. Imagine how hard it is for people who are not fluent in English to understand what you are asking.

And if you are not going to buy IG, why are you asking for help with playing IG?

**smurfORnot**

Cappizzano wrote:
they are getting new dex rly soon.

DKoK is getting their own Codex?

well,FW 'dex' ,they are getting new list.

**frogy27**

am just trying to get see if there worth taking. as its going to cost a couple hundred bucks just to add a 40 man platoon and 2 hw squads. I as i no they will just die in droves and be all dead by turn 2 our 3 as thee have crappy armor and ever thing will just kill them out right.

**Makumba**

I'll make it simpler. imagine you take a tri las pred . ok? now make this pred a flyer for free . done? now make this thing a transport and let it be run in 1-3squads?is this enough to understand why IG is good ?

**Cheesedoodler**

If you have objective in your own deployment zone, who would you rather have sitting on it: A ~50 point squad of guardsmen, or your expensive (and much more useful) Tac squad?

You also have to understand that since YOU get to place your own objectives, you'll put them somewhere that the people holding them will get cover. Guardsmen are almost never just sitting in the open, because as you have said the bolter will kill them outright.

And if you think that Allies don't have any bearing on tournaments, them you are very sadly mistaken.

**CaptainGrey**

frogy27 wrote:
am just trying to get see if there worth taking. as its going to cost a couple hundred bucks just to add a 40 man platoon and 2 hw squads. I as i no they will just die in droves and be all dead by turn 2 our 3 as thee have crappy armor and ever thing will just kill them out right.

Aegis Defense Line.

Honestly, if you think IG are this weak, you need to take a look on over at the "Tactics" forums at all the fantastic IG players, or even look at the most recent tournaments, where IG almost always finds itself into the high-rankings either as itself, or as an Ally.

IG is one of the best codices out. Fact.

**Blaggard**

CaptainGrey wrote:
frogy27 wrote:
I want mortars to deal with hoard armies and how can they be bad at that

*horde

That's subjective.

**Happygrunt**

CaptainGrey wrote:
frogy27 wrote:
am just trying to get see if there worth taking. as its going to cost a couple hundred bucks just to add a 40 man platoon and 2 hw squads. I as i no they will just die in droves and be all dead by turn 2 our 3 as thee have crappy armor and ever thing will just kill them out right.

Aegis Defense Line.

Honestly, if you think IG are this weak, you need to take a look on over at the "Tactics" forums at all the fantastic IG players, or even look at the most recent tournaments, where IG almost always finds itself into the high-rankings either as itself, or as an Ally.

IG is one of the best codices out. Fact.

You know IG is a strong book when it has been out for many years, has gone through two editions and people STILL can't agree on how to build them.

**Skinnereal**

frogy27 wrote:
am just trying to get see if there worth taking. as its going to cost a couple hundred bucks just to add a 40 man platoon and 2 hw squads. I as i no they will just die in droves and be all dead by turn 2 our 3 as thee have crappy armor and ever thing will just kill them out right.

In place of the codex (just borrow one, please...) there's this:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Category:Imperial_Guard_Tactica

A 40-man platoon could easily be 36 lasgunners and 4 Lascannon in a single squad, with a platoon command squad. Plus HW teams.

As for $200 for a platoon, not necessarily true.
The command squad box has 1 of most special weapons, and 5 bodies,
The battleforce is pretty much a platoon in a box,
There is a 5-man box, which is a cheap way to get lasgun bodies.

I posted a list of the contents of the battleforce earlier this month. Hunt around.

And PLEASE use punctuation in your posts.

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From GW US

1x Imperial Guard Cadian Battleforce $120.00
4x Imperial Guard Cadians (5 models) $40.00
Total: $160

This gives you a command squad, a HWS, and 40 troops.
Use the Sentinel weapons to make the 4th HWS, and you've got bodies to spare.
Make a Lord Commisar for the HQ, and you're all set.

There are cheaper ways to do this....

**Chaoticredneck**

like everyone has said buy the codex....if you don't like it sell it on ebay or in the Dakka Swap Shop.........

and take in consideration of everyone's advice. as you have stated you haven't been playing that long but ALOT of us on here have and we have the knowledge

i cant give any advice on this subject because its all already been said