Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

FNP originally looked nerfed but its actually a massive buff.

Command Squads on Bikes with FNP are amazing. Expensive yes but wow! I charged these guys with 6 terminators with fists, normal ti hit and wound rolls, ended up causing 1 wound. They fell back, with three plasma guns... Yeah, nasty unit.

It's not a "massive buff", it just got better for some units. For the rank and file trooper, under normal fire conditions, its a nerf.

I fail to see how FnP is less reliable now. You're more likely to get a save compared to 5th even if its a lower chance to work.

I don't if "unreliable" is the word I would choose. For BA, it's a force multiplier of debatable efficacy due to the costs involved.

You can argue all day over which version -5th or 6th- of FNP is better. It's pretty easy to run your own stats. I actually tally my FNP every game, rolls taken and FNP saves made, to see how my luck with it goes. Ironically, my history has me making more more FNP saves for my DC than through my Priests.

I'm not that familiar with loyalist wannabe World Eaters, but assuming you cut the source of the FnP, what could you replace it with of equal or greater value?

Just more bodies is the general argument. Maybe it's still reaction to losing init 5 from furious charge. That was the *real* reason to field SP in 5th. Now that's gone, so now FNP is the primary feature. It just doesn't seem help that much perhaps because now BA ASM are just as hapless as C:SM ASM.

I liked PM a lot in 5th.
I love them in 6th.

(though to be completely honest, the plague knife is also a nice boost...)

 minigun762 wrote:
I'm not that familiar with loyalist wannabe World Eaters, but assuming you cut the source of the FnP, what could you replace it with of equal or greater value?

Depending on your list, just add more bodies to a unit or get another one...even if it's scouts. I personally still keep a Priest around, no I5 but +1S is nothing to forget about either. Priests just went from auto-include 2-3 to putting some thought into whether you can utilize the points elsewhere, IMO.

My hybrid mech list has two priests, but one is a biker to give FNP to a biker squad and attack bike squad.

My jumper list actually has two priests and corbulo in it currently. I might try to add bodies to this list an eliminate one priest.

For BA FNP is still the go to tactic for infantry based armies.

at 1500+ I run at least two priests one on foot (corbulo if I can) and one on a bike, one to cover the devastators/tacticals and the other for assault elements.

As long as each priest FNp saves 3 marines its basically paid for itself. Thats not even counting the FC bonus.

FNP = allows you to survive situations you otherwise had no chance too (PW/Plasma etc).


***Corbulo is a beast if you are unaware

Your math is off for jump pack priests/biker priests. And he also has to pay for the lack of offense from the bodies that you're not taking to take him. It's surprisingly complex.

If you are going to look at it that way, you also have to account for the priests ability to fight in challenges, which can be important, & the increased killing power from moving charge strength from S4 to S5. Assuming that the aura is properly assigned (say 2x assault squads + 2x supporting power weapon wielding squads such as sang guard & honor guard) then that could mean upwards of 100 attacks on the charge being upgraded from S4 to S5. Even if you have two priests to do that...

I suppose that's true. I've been mostly ignoring furious charge in decision making for the SP, since its such a weak sauce power now. But it is worth *something*. To me, challenges are to be avoided with the priests so they don't *die*. I have enough problems with blown LOS rolls

warpspider89 wrote:
If you are going to look at it that way, you also have to account for the priests ability to fight in challenges, which can be important, & the increased killing power from moving charge strength from S4 to S5. Assuming that the aura is properly assigned (say 2x assault squads + 2x supporting power weapon wielding squads such as sang guard & honor guard) then that could mean upwards of 100 attacks on the charge being upgraded from S4 to S5. Even if you have two priests to do that...

If you're putting an I4 model with 1 wound and power armor in challenges, you're not thinking too closely about the game to begin with. Sanguinary Priests suck in combat, and the price of losing one far outweighs the benefits of sending one to his death.

Totally agree. Almost every time that will be the case. On rare occasions it will be a good move to chump with the character to remove another character from general combat and those times count too.

Ps. Try to be nicer with your criticism! This is supposed to be a respectful place.

I just finished a BA game where the Doom landed in front of a squad of ASM, Devs, and more devs (I had my reason for that placement....even with the risks) but was aware that I had enough cover to withstand that cheeseball. Moreso, with good leadership rolls and reasonably predictable cover and fnp, the Doom failed to put a single scratch on any of my squads, something I've never successfully done. FnP is still highly useful.

**It was some quick and dirty math. But a simple method of it is a priest can cover 15 marines consistently throughout a game its worth the investment.

15 marines -> 1/3 additional wound negations. 5 marines more alive then dead. When considering anything that dosent negate FNP (which isnt really considered as it would often negate any saves anyways).

A very very flawed method of cost reasoning but it gives some food for thought.

So again for myself.
1 priest for a tactical squad+2 devastator squads = worthwhile investment
1 priest for attack bikes and RAS = even more worthwhile investment given FC.



On the topic of challenges. There are two ways to thing of the priest. Method 1-> keep them naked and avoid all challenges (which I do). Method 2-> run them with a PW to lay into a squad while a sgt takes the challenge.

Give the sarge and priest axes and deny challenges. Net effect is the same, except the opposing IC has to hit FNP mooks. Well as mooky as the BA get.

Martel732 wrote:
Give the sarge and priest axes and deny challenges. Net effect is the same, except the opposing IC has to hit FNP mooks. Well as mooky as the BA get.

Run a scout army.

All scouts with Astro (with DC) and Corbulo and Stormravens full of angry CCW scouts. Infiltrate and outflank the rest.

One day I will run this list... likely all proxy due to the fact you should never need 50+ scouts.

 hazal wrote:
All scouts with Astro (with DC) and Corbulo and Stormravens full of angry CCW scouts. Infiltrate and outflank the rest.

One day I will run this list... likely all proxy due to the fact you should never need 50+ scouts.

I wrote up one for fun at 2000pts, there we 60 scouts, 2 Baals, 2 squads of Devs and a Terminator Epistolary with some points to spare.

 hazal wrote:
All scouts with Astro (with DC) and Corbulo and Stormravens full of angry CCW scouts. Infiltrate and outflank the rest.

One day I will run this list... likely all proxy due to the fact you should never need 50+ scouts.

At NOVA last year there was a guy with a pure scout army, I think he was running under Codex Marines. It looked pretty cool altogether, not sure how it performed though. I'm sure running it double-FOC might have some interesting options.