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Neo, if you want to make up a chapter, write up some fluff and stick it in bolter and chainsword liber astartes section. They give awesome advice. It is far better to get the fluff then the rules than the other way around.

 McNinja wrote:
Neo, if you want to make up a chapter, write up some fluff and stick it in bolter and chainsword liber astartes section. They give awesome advice. It is far better to get the fluff then the rules than the other way around.

Will do. Also got better ideas for some of the weapons I listed:

Tachyon Blade [Range: -] [Str: +1] [AP3] [Melee, Master-Crafted, Rending] = unique, used by the Chapter Master
Furious Wrath [Range: 24"] [Str: 4] [AP: 5] [Assault 2, Poisoned 4+] = unique, used by the Master Chaplain
Destructor [Range: -] [Str: +1] [AP: 2] [Melee, Master-Crafted, Armourbane] unique, used by the Master of the Forge

Also some unit thoughts. Those in cyan are concepts at this time:

Chapter Master Adamas [Wargear: Tachyon Blade, Storm Shield, Artificer Armour, Frag and Krak] [Rules: IC, ATSKNF, Crusader]
Master Chaplain Haedean [Wargear: Furious Wrath, Power Maul, Artificer Armour, Iron Halo, Frag and Krak, Jump Pack] [Rules: IC, HotC, LoB, "allied units within 6" can use his Ld value for the appropriate tests"]
Forgesmith Daelo [Wargear: Destructor, Melta Pistol, Artificer Armour, Servo Harness, Frag and Krak] [Rules: IC, Fearless, BotO, Bolster Defences, Lord of the Armoury]
Guardian Knights: Honour Guard concept, maximum 4-man (fluff reasons, they form a "diamond" around their charge), TH/SS loadout, +1 WS and +1 W, confer immunity from Precision Shots/Strikes as long as at least 2 of them are alive
Warp Hunters: Fast Attack unit, same stats and rules as a SW Cyberwolf, includes "Preferred Enemy: Psykers" (fluff reasons, they are machine-spirits tasked with specifically hunting Psykers)
Predators: only change is the concept of a twin-linked Autocannon instead of a single-linked one
Land Speeders: options similar to the 6ed DA, possibility for Typhoon Launcher, Multi-Melta and Heavy Bolter on the same vehicle - unless I read their Codex wrong
Spartan Assault Tank: the FW one with 5 HP, the chapter possesses only one of these machines

NeoAigaion wrote:
Also got better ideas for some of the weapons I listed:

And, again, WHY? What is the fluff for these? What is so special about them that they can't be represented by the existing weapons and absolutely need your own house rules? So far it seems like you're making your own rules just for the sake of making your own rules, and that's not really going to convince anyone that they should play against you.

Destructor [Range: -] [Str: +1] [AP: 2] [Melee, Master-Crafted, Armourbane] unique, used by the Master of the Forge

No. There is a reason why GW has removed pretty much every AP 2 weapon that can swing at initiative. This is the perfect example of why nobody wants to allow your rules, all you've done with this weapon is remove a deliberate tradeoff (of AP2 vs. initiative) and make a weapon whose sole purpose for existing seems to be "I don't like the 6th edition power weapon rules".

 Peregrine wrote:

NeoAigaion wrote:
Also got better ideas for some of the weapons I listed:

And, again, WHY? What is the fluff for these? What is so special about them that they can't be represented by the existing weapons and absolutely need your own house rules? So far it seems like you're making your own rules just for the sake of making your own rules, and that's not really going to convince anyone that they should play against you.

Destructor [Range: -] [Str: +1] [AP: 2] [Melee, Master-Crafted, Armourbane] unique, used by the Master of the Forge

No. There is a reason why GW has removed pretty much every AP 2 weapon that can swing at initiative. This is the perfect example of why nobody wants to allow your rules, all you've done with this weapon is remove a deliberate tradeoff (of AP2 vs. initiative) and make a weapon whose sole purpose for existing seems to be "I don't like the 6th edition power weapon rules".

Forgot to include "Unwieldy" for that weapon, sorry.

Chapter-fluff wise, only Tachyon Blade and Destructor make sense from that angle. The first is capable of slicing through anything but the hardest of materials (hence why it is NOT AP2). The second was made from an attempt to create an Imperial version of the Necron Warscythe, except that it isn't perfect (hence why it still has Unwieldy and is NOT AP1).

Also, the Tachyon Blade is inspired by a Marvel Comics character - Silver Samurai. His sword cannot cut through adamantium even with his mutant tachyon-field power.

OP I thought you were trolling for a bit. The army/rules you have listed are so broken I cant be bothered to take the time to break it down. Rending bolters? plasma that doesnt get hot? 2 wound Knight Paladins? Bonesabres?
Did you just pick the best bits from every existing codex and ram them into one post? Adding all the flavours from different armies into one army doesnt make that army the greatest. It makes it ridiculous, boring and dilutes the different elements you put in. In this case, the whole is far less than the sum of its parts.



Hang on. Is the OP Matt Ward?

(That joke had to be made, you may commence the flaming )

NeoAigaion wrote:
The second was made from an attempt to create an Imperial version of the Necron Warscythe, except that it isn't perfect (hence why it still has Unwieldy and is NOT AP1).

Why can't you just use the standard powerfist rules for this, and model it as a scythe?

Also, the Tachyon Blade is inspired by a Marvel Comics character - Silver Samurai. His sword cannot cut through adamantium even with his mutant tachyon-field power.

How is this at all different from a generic power sword? Why does it require special rules?

NeoAigaion wrote:

Land Speeders: options similar to the 6ed DA, possibility for Typhoon Launcher, Multi-Melta and Heavy Bolter on the same vehicle - unless I read their Codex wrong
]

No.
The Land Speeder can replace its HB with a MM, and then take either a Typhoon launcher OR a chin mounted weapon.

NeoAigaion wrote:
[color=cyan]Guardian Knights: Honour Guard concept, maximum 4-man (fluff reasons, they form a "diamond" around their charge), TH/SS loadout, +1 WS and +1 W, confer immunity from Precision Shots/Strikes as long as at least 2 of them are alive

This is a joke, right? GK Paladins with TH/SS?

Warp Hunters: Fast Attack unit, same stats and rules as a SW Cyberwolf, includes "Preferred Enemy: Psykers" (fluff reasons, they are machine-spirits tasked with specifically hunting Psykers)

Why can't you use SW allies?

Predators: only change is the concept of a twin-linked Autocannon instead of a single-linked one

"Hey guys, can I make my Predator better just because I want it to be better?"

Spartan Assault Tank: the FW one with 5 HP, the chapter possesses only one of these machines

This sounds an awful lot like "I only want to buy one model, so I'll 'limit' it to 0-1."

NeoAigaion wrote:
Guardian Knights: Honour Guard concept, maximum 4-man (fluff reasons, they form a "diamond" around their charge), TH/SS loadout, +1 WS and +1 W, confer immunity from Precision Shots/Strikes as long as at least 2 of them are alive

OK. So you clearly are a bit jelly of the GK and their Paladins, but you also want to combine the glory of 2 wound Terminators with the durability of the THSS. OK. Unlike the others I am going to say fine. You just need to provide two things.

1) You need a non "throw up in my mouth" explanation as to why your homebrew chapter has access to a unit as elite as the Grey Knights, when the Imperial Fists, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, infact none of the Founding chapters have access to anything like this. Essentially why does your chapter need these when all of the other Greats, including Marneous Calgar, Darnath Lysander, Vulcan, and Logan Grimnar are content with just Terminator Body Guards?

2) Assuming you have successfully answered question 1, now you need to explain why it is both internally and externally balanced. Internally balanced means it balances well with units in its comparable force org slot, externally balanced means that other armies can reasonably counter the unit. Both can be achieved with negative rules, points increases, and often a combination of both.
a) OK, all things equal, this unit should be no more desirable than other elite slot choices. So therefor it needs to be in line with Tactical Terminators, Sternguard Veterans, Dreadnaughts, and whatever else Mariens have in that slot.
b) Then it needs to not be something that can win a game by itself. If a unit can win a game by itself and the enemy cannot reasonably stop that from happening. Then it is also unbalanced.
So. You've capped them a 4 models maximum. Thats a good start, but you'll need to give us the price of these units as well. We shouldn't start with a THSS terminator, because thsoe are considered undercosted in the Vanilla Marine codex, and indeed cost considerably more in books like Space Wolves. When adding a homebrew unit we should ALWAYS aim to be over-costed, as that increases the odds of it being fair. So lets start with a Tactical Terminator (40 points), add a wound (20 points), upgrade power fist to a TH (10 points), add a storm shield (20 points) and Weapon Skill 5 (10 points).
Essentially giving us a 100 point model. 100 points seems fair for what you are getting, but I think we should add one negative rule, just for good measure. Slow and Purposful.

OK so you've got a 2 wound terminator with ws5, and a 2+/3++. Great! It also has a unit cap of 4, costs 100 points per model, and cannot run in the shooting phase, making it very difficult to catch anything. Basically its like a Mutilator that costs considerably more.

I think you'll find that if you only post the upside, everyone will think your ideas are terrible. If you want people to accept your ideas as reasonable, you need too put the points cost AND downsides as well. That is the only way people will be able to see that you do infact care about balance and not making your book better than official codexes for no reason.

100 points for that model is too much, 90 is better.

Homebrew lists tend to work out better if you can point to an existing army list and give a well thought out piece of fluff of why your army needs these changes.

A friend of mine has a horde of "Squats". We took the last codex released (with some of the Imperial Guard Codex) and tried to make all the changes to the flavor of 6th edition. His army is awsome to play against. I actually feel better of the game having done this: The rules work when you follow their decision making.

Good luck, but the marine army is reminding me of the super hero SM army featured in WD many years ago as a joke but they balanced the expense of about 5 guys the same as a ~1500 point army.

Actually, a twin-linked autocannon exists in the form of a Reaper Autocannon from the CSM codex...except it offers a trade off of only being 36" and is only fielded by a Defiler, Helbrute, or a Terminator.

The rest of the rules, and even the reworks, smack of triple

Im a huge fan of the concept of Sternguard w/ special ammo, rending cause they have bolters, and artificer armor. You should give the Sternguard relentless and sniper too. If your gonna break something might as well go all the way. You didnt borrow any blood angel stuff so you could just make a sternguard squad outta of Captain Tychos, the sane version.

Honestly, your new concepts give me the impression that you either did not read ANY of 30 or so comments you got to your OP, or you simply failed to absorb/acknowledge any of the points and suggestions that were made.

NeoAigaion wrote:
Destructor [Range: -] [Str: +1] [AP: 2] [Melee, Master-Crafted, Armourbane] unique, used by the Master of the Forge

This is another example of a completely OTT weapon. AP 2 at initiative with armorbane and rerolls to hit is better than just about any weapon currently in the game, at least make it unwieldy.

NeoAigaion wrote:
Guardian Knights: Honour Guard concept, maximum 4-man (fluff reasons, they form a "diamond" around their charge), TH/SS loadout, +1 WS and +1 W, confer immunity from Precision Shots/Strikes as long as at least 2 of them are alive
Warp Hunters: Fast Attack unit, same stats and rules as a SW Cyberwolf, includes "Preferred Enemy: Psykers" (fluff reasons, they are machine-spirits tasked with specifically hunting Psykers)
Predators: only change is the concept of a twin-linked Autocannon instead of a single-linked one
Land Speeders: options similar to the 6ed DA, possibility for Typhoon Launcher, Multi-Melta and Heavy Bolter on the same vehicle - unless I read their Codex wrong

One of the main things that several commenters pointed out, myself included, was that you cannot just go around cherry-picking units and rules out of every other codex. Just right here we have 3 different codexes. You seem to have at least acknowledged the idea that you have to add some believable fluff to give the impression that you are being creative rather than TFG. However, one little line of "fluff reasons" doesn't cut it. At least a couple of paragraphs of well written, logical fluff that ties the unit into the core concept of your army is necessary to make these units more than just a middle finger to your potential opponents.

To that end, just scrap that first idea. GK paladins with TH/SS? You must be joking. There is no way you are being anything but TFG when you look at one of the most powerful units in 40k and think "How could I make these even more unstoppable."

I did rework two things last night: the Chapter Master and the Master of the Forge (Supreme Commander and Forgesmith respectively, as per my chapter's titles). I did pay attention. And I did go back over the Codicies.

The Supreme Commander is 200 points with a MC Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Artificer Armour, Frag and Krak, Captain statline, standard Captain rules, and "Crusader" (fluff reason: he is seemingly unstoppable in combat, charging from one engagement to the next).

The Forgesmith is about 195-200 points. He comes with a MC Power Axe, Conversion Beamer, Marine Bike, Artificer Armour, Grenades, MotF statline with +1WS, standard MotF rules, and Fearless (fluff reason: his brain is mostly cybernetic and the part of it that processes fear was removed ages ago).

The only problem I see with those point values is that both Crusader and Fearless are rules that are conveyed to units that they join. IMHO that makes them more "valuable" on independent characters. The Forgesmith, for instance, can be built without the +1 WS, MC Weapon, and Fearless for 170 points. If we add the +5 pt standard MC fee, that means you are valuing +1 WS and Fearless at 20-25 points... I think it needs to be a bit higher than that.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
There are reasons why certain armies have certain options. .

Yes, there are. Although depending on which way the GW design pendulum is swinging at the time the codex is written, the reason is as likely to be 'because that's what comes in the kit' rather than anything actually to do with game balance...

NeoAigaion wrote:
I did pay attention.

Apparently not, because you still haven't posted anything that doesn't just look like a wishlist of "how can I make my army more powerful".

The Supreme Commander is 200 points with a MC Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Artificer Armour, Frag and Krak, Captain statline, standard Captain rules, and "Crusader"

Probably not terrible. Relic blade/SS/artificer is 160, so 40 points to master craft the weapon and give out a weak USR. However, I still don't see why this character needs special rules instead of just being a generic captain using the normal C:SM rules.

(fluff reason: he is seemingly unstoppable in combat, charging from one engagement to the next).

Fluff-wise everyone is unstoppable. Why does your character require special rules when there are so many other "unstoppable" characters that don't have that USR?

The Forgesmith is about 195-200 points. He comes with a MC Power Axe, Conversion Beamer, Marine Bike, Artificer Armour, Grenades, MotF statline with +1WS, standard MotF rules, and Fearless (fluff reason: his brain is mostly cybernetic and the part of it that processes fear was removed ages ago).

No. Power axe/conversion beamer/bike is 170, so 30 points for a MC weapon, +1 WS, and a powerful USR. That's way too much.

Also, the fluff is still just a flimsy excuse to get a powerful USR. Marines already have ATSKNF and LD 10, I don't see any reason why your character needs fearless instead of just using the standard MotF rules.

This is not working so I'm just going to say...

Story(fluff) time or not interested.(You will find this often but they usually won't say it bluntly)

 Abandon wrote:
This is not working so I'm just going to say...

Story(fluff) time or not interested.(You will find this often but they usually won't say it bluntly)

As a counter argument, I don't give a rip about the background of your special snowflake and how many greater daemons he's seduced with his manliness. Only rules matter in the game.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Abandon wrote:
This is not working so I'm just going to say...

Story(fluff) time or not interested.(You will find this often but they usually won't say it bluntly)

As a counter argument, I don't give a rip about the background of your special snowflake and how many greater daemons he's seduced with his manliness. Only rules matter in the game.

Well, six other people on this page alone disagree. You have a valid opinion of course but as the OP expressed a care for what his gaming club thought about his ideas we are trying to help him improve general opinion among his fellow players regarding his homebrew codex, as well as properly balance his forces. Good to note there are a few who don't care about fluff at all but since the majority does, my suggestions stand.

I am sorry but much of this stuff sounds ridiculous

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
I am sorry but much of this stuff sounds ridiculous

General consensus in this thread.