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 DarknessEternal wrote:
HH series is it's own universe that is not the same as the main 40k setting. They've stated this numerous times. The only cannon fork 40k comes from the rulebooks and army books.

This is incorrect. There is *no* canon for 40K while, at the same time, it is *all* canon.

Angron and lorgar got out of ultramar by.knowing the only path out.

I will have to read know no fear again, but in sure it says there are around 1 million ultramarines at the height of there power, scattered all over the galaxy, as I said I will have to check.

Hmm I think it may have been Said by guiliman that his legion has suffered 20-30% casualties and there were about 400K ultras at calth.. Gonna go check memory fails me.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
HH series is it's own universe that is not the same as the main 40k setting. They've stated this numerous times. The only cannon fork 40k comes from the rulebooks and army books.

Care to validate this claim?

 Formosa wrote:
Angron and lorgar got out of ultramar by.knowing the only path out.

I will have to read know no fear again, but in sure it says there are around 1 million ultramarines at the height of there power, scattered all over the galaxy, as I said I will have to check.

Hmm I think it may have been Said by guiliman that his legion has suffered 20-30% casualties and there were about 400K ultras at calth.. Gonna go check memory fails me.

That's a gross exaggeration.

There were 250,000 Ultramarines all up of which 200,000 were at Calth, most of whom died.

There were only 2 million Space Marines max, counting all the Legions.

 rems01 wrote:

There were only 2 million Space Marines max, counting all the Legions.

Until they multiply their number by ten in the next book again!

 rems01 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Angron and lorgar got out of ultramar by.knowing the only path out.

I will have to read know no fear again, but in sure it says there are around 1 million ultramarines at the height of there power, scattered all over the galaxy, as I said I will have to check.

Hmm I think it may have been Said by guiliman that his legion has suffered 20-30% casualties and there were about 400K ultras at calth.. Gonna go check memory fails me.

That's a gross exaggeration.

There were 250,000 Ultramarines all up of which 200,000 were at Calth, most of whom died.

There were only 2 million Space Marines max, counting all the Legions.

Gross exaggeration.. Durp durp....

As I said "I will have to check" and "my.memory fails me", since you know the exact number of ultras on calth, can you point me to the page number in know no fear, as I can't seem to find it, cheers.

Also where you got the 2 million space marines from, I agree on the number, you just seem to have access to info I haven't seen.

200k does sound right. I don't have a page number but it definitely does sound familiar.

I would dispute the 'most of whom' died, however. I don't remember that being said. Sure, there were significant ultramarine casualties, but even percentage wise it would be tiny compared to the infrastructure, human populace and Imperial Army. My gut instinct would have been around 10-15% casualties from Calth - so up to 30k actual marines. Which, lets face it, is pretty devastating for most people.

But, compare that with potentially 90% and higher casualties of the Army... With only those able to reach the caverns surviving.

That is a darned massacre, no matter how you phrase it.

The 2 million mark comes from maths.

The Legion average was considered to be around 100,000. Some had many more than this, such as the Ultramarines and some had much fewer such as the Thousand Sons.

So given an average of 100,000 each (with some quite a bit larger) and 18 Legions that's a maximum of around 2 million Space Marines .

I don't recall the exact page saying 200,000 but i've found another which will do. It's at mark -61.25.22. There are twenty chapters assembled on Calth, each Chapter comprising 10,000 men.

re-Casualties i recall the book mentioning the Legion lost at least half it's number and the fleet lost 4/5ths of it's force.