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I can testify on behalf of ITEN and FUBAR. Both are excellent. I love the hell out of some FUBAR. ITEN has a RT vibe about it that's satisfying. But FUBAR 40K is dead simple. My kids love playing it and it's the perfect intro ruleset to get non-gamers interested. If someone shows interest in my model cabinets I can whip up a quick, nonthreatening game. Folks go into convulsions when they see the hardbound Brittannica Volume on Differential Equations required to play WHFB or 40K.

 sdebaun wrote:
I'm not sure how SaTF does it, but the card-driven play is what everyone *loves* about Ars Victor. It adds a whole new level of strategy to the game -- you now have to organize and maneuver your forces with limited command ability. Each player has their own deck, that they go through only once, so there's a deck management axis to consider when you're planning your moves. It creates an amazing back-and-forth tempo that adds a huge amount of tension to the game.

I like the sound of all the benefits and mechanics of the card usage, I'm just not a fan of mixing mediums. Could you achieve the same features with dice activation?

Doomsdave wrote:But FUBAR 40K is dead simple. My kids love playing it and it's the perfect intro ruleset to get non-gamers interested. If someone shows interest in my model cabinets I can whip up a quick, nonthreatening game.

I was in a similar situation. 30 years of gaming, but I've got a bunch of friends who aren't nearly as nerdcore as me. WH40k *terrifies* them.

Ars Victor bridges that gap for them. We had 12 year olds playing at the tournament -- in fact I got beat down by a kid that age on his first game at my FLGS.

bosky wrote:I like the sound of all the benefits and mechanics of the card usage, I'm just not a fan of mixing mediums. Could you achieve the same features with dice activation?

Dice wouldn't fulfill the key benefits and balance that cards bring: a fixed, limited supply. It is critical that each player have the exact same potential set of card draws, only in a different order.

Each player has their own command deck of 24 cards. Four suits, two through seven. You never re-shuffle. Most games end on points before you get through the deck; otherwise the game ends when all cards are played.

The suits affect the cost of activating your units; you assign them a suit with a "banner" when you bring them on the board. The most efficient plays are those where the card matches the banner.

Ultimately, this deck/hand management is an essential part of the fun of Ars Victor. You find yourself constantly making battlefield-level, strategic judgments that involve lots of soft and hard probabilities. You're not just evaluating individual unit moves, you're evaluating what those moves cost you in terms of command cards. You're not just looking at your enemy's potential response moves, you're taking into account what suits they're still strong in.

Oh! And I forgot to mention -- the poker chips in that video are from an early prototype; we don't use those anymore. For the two different kits:

- The regular version uses cardboard unit counters and tiny hit markers
- For the double-wide mini version, you just use as many figures as a unit has hits.

Thanks for clarifying, that sounds like a neat and unique approach. I guess my knee jerk was anti-card, but the mechanics you describe sound like a great system!

 bosky wrote:
Thanks for clarifying, that sounds like a neat and unique approach. I guess my knee jerk was anti-card, but the mechanics you describe sound like a great system!

I hope you give it a try! I'm looking for more WH40k players to help me come up with stats for units that are "compatible" with different 40k miniatures. I've got a good grasp on several flavors of SM, and Craftworld Eldar, but I don't know enough about any of the other codices to really capture their essence.

 Amaya wrote:
Don't some people use them for Dark Heresy or do they just use the bigger models?

most use them in DH as proxies as they are much cheaper to convert/buy than say 54mm Inquisitor scaled models. i have used them from chess to game of life to a game my step father bought by the name of Key to the kingdom.

i see problems using them in other games. for the better part of me starting out i used card cut-outs inserted into heroquest door frame clip things, it frustrated my old gaming group no end but they were cool enough for me to "count as" terminators or or boyz etc....

 Orkimedes1000 wrote:
i have used them from chess to game of life to a game my step father bought by the name of Key to the kingdom.

Using them with Ars Victor is more like using them for chess. It's not a miniatures ruleset, it's a board game. It's just a lot more fun to play with ferociously-painted minis.

Any So Cal players can check us out at Gamex, in Los Angeles, this year. We're holding another big tournament (like we did last year), and I plan on having a double-wide demo board set up with all-minis.