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GTKA666 wrote:

 BlkTom wrote:
Or you can sink a couple hundred bucks into them to actually get the stuff you need to make your list better /now/ and hope it translates in the 6th Ed codex. I have loads of stuff that no longer exists in the game any more. Are you spending your folks money or your own... if it is your own, a 'Thanks, I will not blow a ton of money right now one a list that may totally change in 1 year' would be nice. If it is your folks and they will not murder you for potentially blowing their money...break out the plastic and either Ebay or buy new and get better units and more troops.

there are several " safe units and we will probably see what will happen with tau. Stuff gets moved around and add a few things here and there, but nothing taken out. Except for Support Weapon Batteries. Those are the only things that have the potential to be taken out of the Codex. After that everything is going to be pumped up and debuffed or just go sideways.

This+1. I doubt we'll lose anything, we'll get a few new units and something mediocre GW hasn't sold too many of will become awesome so it sells.

 BlkTom wrote:
Or you can sink a couple hundred bucks into them to actually get the stuff you need to make your list better /now/ and hope it translates in the 6th Ed codex. I have loads of stuff that no longer exists in the game any more. Are you spending your folks money or your own... if it is your own, a 'Thanks, I will not blow a ton of money right now one a list that may totally change in 1 year' would be nice. If it is your folks and they will not murder you for potentially blowing their money...break out the plastic and either Ebay or buy new and get better units and more troops.

Yeah its my money. But I get some for stuff like good grades and stuff. But keep in mind Im working on three armies here and its not like i get a paycheck every other friday... or at all really...

As a fellow Eldar player, I can only hope.

Then I look at all of my lasgun Guardians and heavy weapon Guardians and shake my head.

I am going to disregard what you have and assume you have unlimited pockets full of cash... LOL

So you want Biel-Tan so we will try to avoid guardian spam.
I personnally think all eldar vehicles without legs are overpriced and not worth it except in very specialized builds...

So:

HQ: Eldrad 210
HQ: Farseer 155?? You want 4 spells so that you can transfer them to divination... Eldrad stays with Eldar spells. Particularly Doom.

Troop: 10 Pathfinders 240 - I know this is not strictly Biel Tan but it is invaluable as protection for Eldrad and protection for your whole army from Terminators AP1/AP2 rending with 75% chance to wound is too good to pass up on. (Assuming Doomed target)

10 Dire Avengers - Exarch w 2 Cats and Bladestorm 152
10 Dire Avengers - SAME 152
10 Dire Avengers - SAME 152

1061

Heavy: 3 Dark Reapers - Exarch Fast Shot EML 147 - 2 S8 shots that can hit 83% of the time...
3 Dark Reapers - Exarch Fast Shot EML 147 - If 1 is good 2 must be better.
3 Dark Reapers - Crack Shot Tempest 147 - You need to affect hoards somehow...

1502

Fast 6 Warp Spiders - Exarch Dual Spinners 132
6 Warp Spiders - Exarch Dual Spinners 132

1766

Now comes your problem... no anti-air and no anti-tank vs AV 14

Option 1
5 Fire Dragons - Exarch with both abilities 112
ADL w Quad Gun 100
1972

Option 2
5 Swooping Hawks 110

1878


With option 1 you are more tied to a point on the board with option 2 you need to keep the hawks alive... Now I kept everything available for 1 force chart... If you want, another option is to lean on your spiders... give the exarch the anti-tank gun and add an autarch with warp generator and fusion gun tp eacj...

The core of this is proper placement of your spells... plan on Fortune, Guide and Doom from Eldrad every turn. Depending on spells, the divination seer can cast whatever is most needed.

 BlkTom wrote:
Then play smaller games, do not start out at 2k points. Work your way up to that level. Give yourself the opportunity to learn the units and learn how to use them with your own playstyle.

I double this. I have played 40k for at least 1+ years and I still don't like 2k. Maybe because it takes time, but I enjoy 1,5k because my army isn't that huge and its a good way to come to grips with your lists.

Why would they get rid of Support Weapon Batteries? Also why are banshees not good? They are a whole squad with power weapons. Why do you say they are bad? Also DAaddict, I dont have any money flow (cant even get a job, legally ) and I am building 2 other armies right now so... yeah... that wont work... Although the other eldar player in my store would probably let me borrow his rangers/pathfinders. But for now I would like to stray away from eldar for a while (ill play a game now and then) until their new codex comes out.

 Georgefancy wrote:
Why would they get rid of Support Weapon Batteries? Also why are banshees not good? They are a whole squad with power weapons. Why do you say they are bad? Also DAaddict, I dont have any money flow (cant even get a job, legally ) and I am building 2 other armies right now so... yeah... that wont work... Although the other eldar player in my store would probably let me borrow his rangers/pathfinders. But for now I would like to stray away from eldar for a while (ill play a game now and then) until their new codex comes out.

6th ed really kicked Banshees in the proverbial nuts... Let's go through a charge routine...
1. You can't disembark-even from a non-moving vehicle - and charge.
2. Now you have to deal with overwatch fire.
3. Now you can only take out AV 3 targets... meganobz and terminators are a major no no.
4. You still have to deal with T3, AV 4 and S3. Major problems in a HTH unit...

So lets say you forego the 100+ points sink of a Wave Serpent and still somehow get into a position where you can charge... Let's say we are going after a SM tactical squad with a heavy bolter and a plasma gun... (we don't even want to think about them having a flamer)

So you approach within 12" hopefully closer and shoot your pistols... 7 hit, 3 wound one save blown... so 1 dead marine...

Now we declare the charge. 16 bolters fire and the heavy bolter fires... lets say 2 bolter hits and 1 heavy bolter hits... 1 dead due to the wounding heavy bolter and 50/50 that you lose a second one due to bolter fire... so lets be nice and say 1 dead.... Now you get your attacks... so 24 attacks 12 hit 4 kill then the exarch attacks 2 hit 1.33 kill with your executioner... so it all looks good. 6 dead marines versus 1 dead banshee... but remember I am going by best case scenario...

Just assume he closes within 12" first and fires at you... 18 bolter shots... 12 hit... 8 wound 4 kill... and then a snapfiring heavy bolter averages a 50/50 shot at killing another... Now you want your revenge and 5 pistol shots about a 50/50 shot that you kill one marine... they snap fire at you and will on average kill 1 with a 50/50 shot of killing 2... say they get 2... So now 6 attacks/3hit/1kills and the exarch kills 1 more so 2 dead. Now they respond with 8 guys - one a sergeant so 9 attacks 4.5 hit 3 wound 1.5 dead... cool you either won by 1 but are outnumbered 4 to 1 or you drew the combat and are outnumbered 8 to 1.

All that for a mere 170 + points.... to kill 30 to 60 points of marines...

Eldar are shooty armies for now and that is that... A DA squad will cost less and without blade storm will kill an average of 3 marines without charging (or dooming the target). Doom the target and bladestorm and we average about 6 dead marines... Charge the DA in and we will probably get at least 1 more and the enemy - not reduced to 3 guys will be hard pressed to kill 1 so at worst a draw.

When you spend points on a elite choice, it's job in a list is to be able to take out other elite forces or really be the best option at it's role in your list. You do not want to buy HBs and then avoid fighting other people's Elite melee fighters because they can't handle them. There are 7 codexes with Terminators and Orks with Meganobz (that I know of off the top of my head, might be more). Right there that is half of the codexes, so you have a 50% chance of playing against +2 armor. Because power swords only effect 3+ armor, your only using them to attack troops... troops that will out range you.

Because of this, HBs are really 'assault marines' as the best unit to compare them to. Assault marines can DS and have a PF that he HBs can't get/do, but all of the HBs have power swords and the Init 10 on the charge. Both can run across the board and both can ride and be deployed. Both target the same units... you do not assault Terminators with assault marines and expect to win. Only big problem is that HBs take up a Elite slot instead of a Fast slot. HBs are also sorta fragile, with a 4+ armor save.

That is why I feel Striking Scorpions with their 3+ armor and Power Claw Exarch that can infiltrate the squad in close to cut down on travel (though you can not charge Turn 1, so your sucking up 1-2 turns of shooting anyways). The average SC is just as good as HBs against Terminators. They are both going first and neither has a weapon to get past 2+ armor. The difference is that the SC can weather the Overwatch fire better and the SC get a extra attack. When going against 2+ armor, your only real chance is to hit with as many attacks as possible and force as many saving throws as possible to hope they roll a 1... 6 wounds should equal 1 dead Terminator. After that it is luck. Challenges can really kill this unit by sucking out the Claw and you need that claw in every fight, specially against Terminators.

Now, the best Elite slot avaible to Eldar, IMO, are the Harlequins (clowns). This is because (pretty much) each one can be given a weapon that is Rending (AP 2 on a roll to Wound of a 6). They have a super high Init so they are also probably going first and have a decent amount of attacks. If they are near cover, they probably have a 2-3+ cover save from shooting attacks and if anything have a 5++ invuln save. Clowns are a unit that should have Fortune cast on it every round, so re-roll-able saves. Heck, You don't even have to take a Troop Master, but he does give them a Ld 9. Hide the Shadow Seer and Death Jester from shooting and decline all challenges... because it does not hurt you to ignore them.

 BlkTom wrote:

Now, the best Elite slot avaible to Eldar, IMO, are the Harlequins (clowns). This is because (pretty much) each one can be given a weapon that is Rending (AP 2 on a roll to Wound of a 6). They have a super high Init so they are also probably going first and have a decent amount of attacks. If they are near cover, they probably have a 2-3+ cover save from shooting attacks and if anything have a 5++ invuln save. Clowns are a unit that should have Fortune cast on it every round, so re-roll-able saves. Heck, You don't even have to take a Troop Master, but he does give them a Ld 9. Hide the Shadow Seer and Death Jester from shooting and decline all challenges... because it does not hurt you to ignore them.

This brings us to the topic of the DE/eldar harlequin deathstar. However it requires allies so I urge you not to try it out yet.

Long story short: Banshees are too fragile and can't handle a lot of more resilient elites as of now, due AP3.

Well, right now I have a shortage of troops, and I want to take care of that now. So what would be the best choice for two more troops? I am thinking of getting either 1 squad of DA and 1 squad of PF. OR 2 squads of PF so I dont have to get another WS.

go one and one because if built right DA's can foot slog successfully if you had to.

I'd say you ought to wait a bit, seeing as the new codex is probably coming out this year. If you buy new troops now you might regret it if they end up as horrible.