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Maybe just check the game specs? If you want to use something, it always helps to make sure it does work.

The simple fact is, not all games, as with PCs, are created equal. The fact that games have to be standardized to run on consoles is often a bigger disadvantage. For example, pulled from the Warframe Steam Page I have the minimum system requirements. It's farily easy to understand:
Minimum:
OS:Windows XP SP 3 or higher
Processor:Intel Core 2 Duo e6400 or AMD Athlon x64 4000+
Memory:2 GB RAM
Graphics:Nvidia GeForce 8600 GT or ATI Radeon HD 3600
DirectX®:9.0c
Hard Drive:2 GB HD space
Other Requirements:Broadband Internet connection

The only things slightly difficult to understand are the Processor and Graphics requirements, and a simple bit of common sense and Google will make it obvious. If you have a newer or more powerful item, it will exceed the specifications.

Requirements are really there to make sure that you actually can use software. I know with a console it requires less thought, but honestly, if requirements are a huge problem to you, it's incredibly difficult.

Just thought of a better way to put my point across.

PC gaming is a hobby, Console gaming is entertainment.

Gaming in general is a hobby, stop deluding yourself.

So is movie-going and sports.

 BlapBlapBlap wrote:
Maybe just check the game specs?The only things slightly difficult to understand are the Processor and Graphics requirements, and a simple bit of common sense and Google will make it obvious. If you have a newer or more powerful item, it will exceed the specifications.

No, it won't. Graphics cards are nigh-impossible to tell if they work from minimum requirement specifications.

That part does suck, but the type of games I'm mostly after on the PC (turn based strategy!) are luckily not a drain on the video card.

Having said that, I sprung for the best card I could afford now in a probably futile attempt to "Future Proof" my system...

I did that seven years ago. It worked for, well, seven years. But searching for a new one as I did in Jan was a complete and total pain in the ass because there is no real objective way to measure them that anyone has been able to coherently explain.

The closest I've gotten is "read the reviews" but even that's kind of lame.

 Perkustin wrote:
PC gaming is a hobby, Console gaming is entertainment.

For a lot of people, PC gaming is just entertainment. But then again, at that level of discussion, there really isn't much of a difference between consoles and PCs. When you take the point to its extreme, which is what usually happens in these discussions, then I think you make a very good point. For the overwhelming majority of console owners, the console is a box that doesn't open. Even rather casual PC owners know that they (or more likely someone else) can replace the graphics card in their machine. I mean, no one calls their console their "rig" or anything similar. This is why PC gamers have the reputation of being elitists -- basically because they have rather specialized knowledge and very high standards.

The so-called "difference" between gaming as entertainment and gaming as a hobby is basically entirely artificial and fake, especially if you define one as "a PC gamer" and the other as "a PC gamer who is in denial about how their gaming PC is, in fact, just a gaming PC". It's a debate not worth having.

That's obviously false. Someone who plays video games when they have time is quite different from someone who spends a great deal of their time and money modifying the platform on which they play games for the sake of getting better performance out of those games.

 Manchu wrote:
That's obviously false. Someone who plays video games when they have time is quite different from someone who spends a great deal of their time and money modifying the platform on which they play games for the sake of getting better performance out of those games.

Moving the goalposts, huh?

That's something i didnt think of that further differentiates the PC gamer, there's that feeling of ownership they have for their machine. I couldn't say how popular those bespoke Gaming PCs are however i can say that almost every PC gamer i know has 'built' their own machine. That's a further investment, the craftsmen's pride or workmanship for want of a better word.

Well apparently our definition of Hobby differs, Melissia.

 Perkustin wrote:
That's something i didnt think of that further differentiates the PC gamer, there's that feeling of ownership they have for their machine. I couldn't say how popular those bespoke Gaming PCs are however i can say that almost every PC gamer i know has 'built' their own machine. That's a further investment, the craftsmen's pride or workmanship for want of a better word.

Well apparently our definition of Hobby differs, Melissia.

From my dictionary, a hobby is "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure."

My posting on this forum is a hobby for me. My reading Battletech novels is a hobby, same with my watching of NCIS and the various CSIs.

As is playing games-- regardless of what kind of PC I play them on (be it Windows, Xbox, Wii, Playstation, they're all PCs).

 Melissia wrote:
Moving the goalposts, huh?

TBH, I don't follow you at all.

 Melissia wrote:
From my dictionary, a hobby is "an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure."

I think that's a rather poor definition given that the point of a definition is to distinguish and this one does not distinguish a hobby from any other kind of leisure activity. For example, I like to regularly spend time with my family but I certainly wouldn't call it a hobby. Same thing with watching TV. Calling something a hobby implies a more active participation than normal. With video games, many PC gamers go beyond the normal level of participation, i.e., just playing the game.

 Manchu wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Moving the goalposts, huh?

TBH, I don't follow you at all.

I dislike the constant and unnecessary changing of the definition of the terms "hobby" and "personal computer".

A "hobby" is just something someone regularly does in their leisure time for entertainment/enjoyment. It could even just be something as simple as sitting back and sipping beer-- hell, beer-drinking is a pretty popular hobby and people take it VERY seriously. But it doesn't have to be taken seriously or have a ton of effort put in to it to be a hobby. Hell, I consider 40k a hobby for me, and I barely even bother dealing with my models these days.

Am I somehow not a 40k hobbyist because I don't have entrants for Golden Daemon, or because I don't make plans for Apocalypse games?



Similarly, a "PC", or "personal computer", is, quite simply, a computer intended for use by a single individual. The term developed as a distinction between personal computers and the (then) more common mainframe computers (or the short-lived "minicomputers" that were ONLY the size of a fridge!). Now, if you were to use a term like "Desktop" computer, that might make some more sense... except that with the exception of portable gaming systems, gaming consoles are, themselves, desktop computers.

Thus, the important distinction isn't whether or not something is or isn't a PC, but rather what operating system it runs. Attempting to use the generic term "PC" to indicate that a specific personal computer is not a personal computer is just bizarre and wrong. Hell, even the "don't open the box" rule doesn't necessarily work for Windows gaming PCs-- after all, there's numerous gaming boxes where you void your warranty if you open them up.

 Manchu wrote:
I think that's a rather poor definition given that the point of a definition is to distinguish

Then use a different term.

Why do all the threads in this forum degrade into boring sparing matches over semantics?

PC gaming is not dead. Thread over.

There's nothing wrong with having sparing matches over semantics!

Beer drinking can be hobby -- but in order to be a hobby, you have to do more than simply drink beer often.

40k, and war gaming generally, is considered a hobby because it takes more time and investment than most table top games.

Video games can be a hobby in the same sense -- if you're doing more than simply playing the game. Now, that could mean that you're participating in a guild in MMO or it could mean that you actively update your machine or it could mean that you really like digging into the history of video games, etc., etc.

A hobby is something more than the mostly passive enjoyment that someone can get out of a leisure pursuit in its normal course. It's like the difference between liking something and being a fan of something.

But whether you acknowledge the real connotations of the word hobby or not, the point stands: with PC gaming, one can pour resources into upgrading the platform to get better performance out of the games; this is not really true of console gaming.

If high end game performance is a major part of your enjoyment of gameplay then PC gaming is definitely for you.

 Manchu wrote:
Video games can be a hobby in the same sense -- if you're doing more than simply playing the game.

That is an unnecessary and entirely arbitrary addition to the definition.

 Manchu wrote:
A hobby is something more than the mostly passive enjoyment that someone can get out of a leisure pursuit in its normal course.

Correct, you have to participate in it regularly, as well, not just... sparingly, to continue mocking the typo of the poster above (hehe). But it does not indicate a deep level of participation.

 Manchu wrote:
If high end game performance is a major part of your enjoyment of gameplay then PC gaming is definitely for you.

High-end game performance is not a major part of my enjoyment of gameplay-- and yet, I still prefer PC gaming.

 Melissia wrote:
That is an unnecessary and entirely arbitrary addition to the definition.

Not at all. Also, I don't think you understand "the" definition of the word anyway. But as I said, it's not really important to the larger point of PC gaming entailing, or being able to entail, the pursuit of high end performance whereas console gaming is not really involved in that. That was Perkustin's point and it's pretty valid whether or not the word hobby is invoked.

The difference of PC vs game system is too much like Microsoft and Apple.

PC: Set hardware, interface and all elements of the the hardware to your liking and go. Upgrade anytime, anywhere you want. Small problems of compatibility and inefficiency have to be dealt with.

Apple: Open box, plug in, play with dedicated interface, hardware and storage capacity. Very efficient. No upgrade. Long time between next model. But a "common" experience with your buddy (communist?).

Both have advantages but personally I hate being "managed" and adapt to a system when I can change it. Cool thing is games are made to these consoles and slow down the tech curve so computers are cheaper and have way better hardware than the software needs. I have never had so little need to upgrade in years.

 Manchu wrote:
But as I said, it's not really important to the larger point of PC gaming entailing, or being able to entail, the pursuit of high end performance whereas console gaming is not really involved in that.

I see it as only a matter of time, really. They're so similar and they're getting more and more similar as time goes on. Hell, look at Windows Vista, 7, and 8-- Microsoft has been TRYING to make its Windows platforms to be more like gaming consoles for some time, now. Same with the 360 and PS3's hard drive capacities as well, they're moving closer to what is thought of as "PC" gaming.

Because gaming consoles always were PCs to begin with.

edit: nvm. I don't really care enough.

nomotog wrote:
The difference between a hobby and entertainment is that their is something produced at the end of a hobby.

And here I thought Manchu's distinction was arbitrary... forgive me oh Manchu, I have seen the darkness and wish to convert my ways!

Jokes aside... no. There's nothing necessarily "produced" as a result of a hobby aside from enjoyment.

 Melissia wrote:
Because gaming consoles always were PCs to begin with.

As I've said to you on this point before, that's technically true but not really true in terms of the market. People use PCs and consoles in very different ways. Hence the SteamBox. FWIW, I don't think the SteamBox will "count as" PC gaming because it will be a self-contained, non-customizable product.

 Manchu wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Because gaming consoles always were PCs to begin with.

As I've said to you on this point before, that's technically true but not really true in terms of the market. People use PCs and consoles in very different ways. Hence the SteamBox. FWIW, I don't think the SteamBox will "count as" PC gaming because it will be a self-contained, non-customizable product.

I thought the steam box would be upgradable?

 Manchu wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Because gaming consoles always were PCs to begin with.

As I've said to you on this point before, that's technically true but not really true in terms of the market. People use PCs and consoles in very different ways. Hence the SteamBox. FWIW, I don't think the SteamBox will "count as" PC gaming because it will be a self-contained, non-customizable product.

"The market" is an inherently contradictory and incoherent jumble of people attempting to lie (or "creatively interpret the truth" if you prefer) to you to try to differentiate their product and attempt to convince you that you want to buy it.

Pardon me for not giving a rat's left buttcheek about what "the market" thinks.

nomotog wrote:
I thought the steam box would be upgradable?

I'll have to take your word for it. Have you heard that you can upgrade it like a PC or that it will have something more like an internal version of console peripherals?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Pardon me for not giving a rat's left buttcheek about what "the market" thinks.

By market, I meant people who are buying. I'd use industry to refer to people who are selling. So the distinction here, like I said, is that people game with PCs differently than they do with consoles. It can be something as obvious as input devices or as complex as where gaming happens in a residence.

@Manchu Prolly be Ninja'd but the xi3 Piston, the first steambox, is, iirc, upgradable but in a far more modular way than a normal pc, the upgrades would be first-party afaik.

 Perkustin wrote:
the upgrades would be first-party afaik.

That sounds like a matter of peripherals to me, like the 360's "external" HD.

 Manchu wrote:
So the distinction here, like I said, is that people game with PCs differently than they do with consoles. It can be something as obvious as input devices or as complex as where gaming happens in a residence.

I use the same exact style controller (dualshock), the same desk, and even the same TV screen for my computer gaming and for playing older games my PS2. Meh?

The distinction is entirely arbitrary and pointless.

 Melissia wrote:
The distinction is entirely arbitrary and pointless.

First, I don't know why you insist on being so absolutist; it's abrasive. Second, the distinction can't be pointless considering it drives a huge amount of sales. Whether or not you can use a PC like a console, as in your example, millions of people are not interested in doing so for a variety of reasons.