How do you run your basic Chaos Space Marines?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Wingeds**

I think one thing to keep in mind is that regular CSM work well with more of a horde mentality. Keep them together and well supported. Plague marines and the other special Elite CSM do well on their own (they have FNP or bonus cc weapons or what not).

As for your meta, if you play a lot of MEQ plasma is king and I've been loving VoTLW. They do tend to not do so well in CC, so if you're up against Blood Angels or Grey Knights I'd suggest the extra CCW and an axe or sword on the champ.

I'm still trying out new things and finding what I like for each situation and then finding that perfect middle ground for a TAC list. Just don't expect your CSM squad to be a Deathstar unless it's kitted out and supported as one. Learn the limits of your troops and keep them in the fight doing whatever role they're serving.

**Mr. Voidness**

bogalubov wrote:
Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
bogalubov wrote:
Mr. Voidness wrote:
Griddlelol wrote:
As plague marines.
/thread

Plague marines can't go to ground and I feel that that is a minus for objective holders

I think that's mitigated by FNP.

Not as much as it used to be. 5+ just isn't as reliable as 4+. Yes you get to use it on Ap2 stuff now, and with T5 it basically becomes an Invuln save, but it has always been mass of fire that brings plagues down, more so now that you only have a 1/3 chance of making the FNP save. As another poster said, a huge blob of MoN marines now seems more survivable than a small unit of Plague Marines for the same cost. And unlike Plagues they can go to ground, increasing their save.

My comment was mostly in terms of going to ground.

A marine going to ground in area terrain will have a 4+ cover save. A plague marine will have a 5+ cover save and a 5+ FNP save. The plague marine will actually have a higher chance of surviving than the regular marine who goes to ground. Marginally so, but 56% vs 50%. Behind 4+ cover, their chances of living are the same. So the going to ground argument doesn't work for weapons below S10.

The leadership argument is not always cut and dry in favor or taking the veteran upgrade either. The aspiring champion is LD9 and in non challenge situations should be one of the last 3 people to die (the other two are the guys carrying the special weapons). So I look at them as LD9 as well. If I start dumping points in them, even small amounts of points, I am wasting the advantage of CSM being cheap.

It makes more sense on obliterators, but there you're taking one or two checks before the unit is gone so it's not that big of deal either. If you're taking those checks in the first place, your obliterator unit is not long for this world.

I'll remind you that going to ground in any area terrain and behind ADL gives +2 cover save. So in regular forest or ruin you would get 3+ cover save and behind ADL and in ruin with some real cover you would get 2+ cover save by going to ground. Cultists are certainly better for this job (not against biovores they ain't) but IMO this strength adds to their other strengths (body count, bolter count) and makes regular CSM non obsolete just because plague marines are better.

As for leadership, maybe its my bad luck, but every game I'm glad that I payed those points for vets upgrades for basically everything thats not fearless (havocs, CSM, obliterators). I can't see how its wasting points on troops, who can run on critical moment from objective and loose me a game

**bogalubov**

Good catch. I didn't remember the bonus for going to ground in area terrain.

**Griddlelol**

You seem to be forgetting that T5 is a huge bonus to resilience.
Also two special weapon in a 5 man squad is fabulous.

**labmouse42**

Mr. Voidness wrote:
Plague marines can't go to ground and I feel that that is a minus for objective holders

PMs make great mid-field objective holders.
For deck chair units (back field objective holders) you want either cultists or allied plague bearers.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Not as much as it used to be. 5+ just isn't as reliable as 4+. Yes you get to use it on Ap2 stuff now, and with T5 it basically becomes an Invuln save, but it has always been mass of fire that brings plagues down, more so now that you only have a 1/3 chance of making the FNP save. As another poster said, a huge blob of MoN marines now seems more survivable than a small unit of Plague Marines for the same cost. And unlike Plagues they can go to ground, increasing their save.

What something seems to be, and what it actually is are very different things.

There is a concept I want to share with you. Its called Resilience-Per-Point (RPP). The idea is that you compare how survivable is, point-for-point, to other similar units. The idea is you use a formula to determine a numerical value for every unit. For example a PM has an RPP value of 84 to bolters. A CSM with only MoN also has a 84 to bolters! The PM also brings an extra hand weapon, fearless, plague knives, a free champion, and defensive gernades. The PM has the same RPP value to PGs than the CSM.

Since you can bring 14.38 MoN CSM to 10 PMs, then your getting more return bolter fire than the PMs. That's the advantage MoN CSM provide.

**Goat**

gpfunk wrote:
10 x Chaos Space Marines with 2 x Melta Guns with Rhino (Dirge)
10 x Chaos Space Marines with 2 x Flamers with Rhino (Dirge)

I don't put on VotLW, don't kit out the champion, and don't waste any points anywhere.

Pick one...