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I was mainly making my choices based on aesthetics, what shiny looks good to me. :-)

 agnosto wrote:
I was mainly making my choices based on aesthetics, what shiny looks good to me. :-)

What I mean is this: If what you like in Khador (for any reason), is their 'Jacks go with one of the other factions you like. You might be able to field a really cool looking army of mostly-warjacks in Khador but it will quickly lose its charm assuming you like to win.

About the only Jack spam Khador list that does any good is one that runs tons of Bezerkers. And then you're still only running 4ish jacks at most.

Khador is the 1-2 really big warjacks amoung a sea of tough infantry faction.

So I have been considering making the move to WM, but I have a few questions about the game and thought this would be a good place to start. I am current 40k player, so that may explain some of my questions. Also, none of the LGS stock WM, so there is virtually no player base that I am aware of.

Are the rules systems easy to learn?
yes, but the important part is they are very difficult to master, you start out with move, shoot, ect. eventually you will be using slams and throws and cleverness to drill to the enemy caster, it gets pretty hardcore

Are the factions balanced?
yes, very, there are some "caster vs caster" mismatches, like if you play a anti-magic caster vs one that relies on magic, you're probably going to win, but most tourneys are "bring 2 lists, pick 1 each match) to prevent this from being an issue

How long are typical games?
once you get good, you can play a 50 point (~2000pts 40k) in an hour and a half or so, probably faster depending on build, a lot of people are playing "death clock" now, where each player has 45 minutes to play, if they run out of time, they lose.

Are their Death Star units/cheesy army builds in the game?
not how the game works, there's no spam, if you run a spam list you dont have the flexibility to win there are a few /really/ nasty units like mage hunters trike forces with UA, but they are limited by-squad and deal-with-able

It can be a little odd. Warjacks(that arn't characters) are unlimited but with most units you can only take 2, sometimes even only 1, per warcaster.

Especially when you consider the fluff. The First Exemplar Interdiction has 1100 exemplar infantry, 400 cavalry, and only 18 warjacks.

 Grey Templar wrote:
It can be a little odd. Warjacks(that arn't characters) are unlimited but with most units you can only take 2, sometimes even only 1, per warcaster.

Especially when you consider the fluff. The First Exemplar Interdiction has 1100 exemplar infantry, 400 cavalry, and only 18 warjacks.

the reason for that is simply warjacks consume resources, and infantry don't, there are plenty of infantry theme lists and such that let you break FA, in general jacks are under control because your caster can only do so much.

 Grundz wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
It can be a little odd. Warjacks(that arn't characters) are unlimited but with most units you can only take 2, sometimes even only 1, per warcaster.

Especially when you consider the fluff. The First Exemplar Interdiction has 1100 exemplar infantry, 400 cavalry, and only 18 warjacks.

the reason for that is simply warjacks consume resources, and infantry don't, there are plenty of infantry theme lists and such that let you break FA, in general jacks are under control because your caster can only do so much.

Actually, I believe that is due to the rarity of warcasters themselves that warjacks are unlimited. A single warcaster has those 18 warjacks at his beck and call for battle.

 Surtur wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
It can be a little odd. Warjacks(that arn't characters) are unlimited but with most units you can only take 2, sometimes even only 1, per warcaster.

Especially when you consider the fluff. The First Exemplar Interdiction has 1100 exemplar infantry, 400 cavalry, and only 18 warjacks.

the reason for that is simply warjacks consume resources, and infantry don't, there are plenty of infantry theme lists and such that let you break FA, in general jacks are under control because your caster can only do so much.

Actually, I believe that is due to the rarity of warcasters themselves that warjacks are unlimited. A single warcaster has those 18 warjacks at his beck and call for battle.

Also Product Identity. At least on some level I think PP wants to the game to be "About" warjacks, as it's a key part of their product identity. No sense making it seem at first glance like you've got a limit on those.

Chongara wrote:

 Surtur wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
It can be a little odd. Warjacks(that arn't characters) are unlimited but with most units you can only take 2, sometimes even only 1, per warcaster.

Especially when you consider the fluff. The First Exemplar Interdiction has 1100 exemplar infantry, 400 cavalry, and only 18 warjacks.

the reason for that is simply warjacks consume resources, and infantry don't, there are plenty of infantry theme lists and such that let you break FA, in general jacks are under control because your caster can only do so much.

Actually, I believe that is due to the rarity of warcasters themselves that warjacks are unlimited. A single warcaster has those 18 warjacks at his beck and call for battle.

Also Product Identity. At least on some level I think PP wants to the game to be "About" warjacks, as it's a key part of their product identity. No sense making it seem at first glance like you've got a limit on those.

I can see product identity being a major factor. The game is supposed to be about Warjacks and Warcasters with the infantry being the faceless in between (save those special units and solos). I think there also was probably some measure of not needing to put a cap on jacks' because to be effective you cannot really spam them. Your warcaster simply cannot handle that. Spamming units however could be quite ridiculous with some of the unit combos out there and hence the reasoning behind FA allowances being low on many of them.

TheMostWize wrote:
Your warcaster simply cannot handle that. Spamming units however could be quite ridiculous with some of the unit combos out there and hence the reasoning behind FA allowances being low on many of them.

Well I don't know. Depends on the 'Jack, Faction & the caster. Part of me has had this idea for list that runs 10 Repenters @ 75pts (or 6 @ 50). That's Protectorate though and our non-warcaster 'Jack support probably is what makes entertaining an idea like that less than insane.

I'd feel confident about having a passable list with any caster running 5 Heavies in Protectorate as well. Save maybe Vindictus & Reclaimer/Testament. It's really points more than resource that limits the amount of 'Jacks we can run.

Chongara wrote:

TheMostWize wrote:
Your warcaster simply cannot handle that. Spamming units however could be quite ridiculous with some of the unit combos out there and hence the reasoning behind FA allowances being low on many of them.

Well I don't know. Depends on the 'Jack, Faction & the caster. Part of me has had this idea for list that runs 10 Repenters @ 75pts (or 6 @ 50). That's Protectorate though and our non-warcaster 'Jack support probably is what makes entertaining an idea like that less than insane.

I'd feel confident about having a passable list with any caster running 5 Heavies in Protectorate as well. Save maybe Vindictus & Reclaimer/Testament. It's really points more than resource that limits the amount of 'Jacks we can run.

I dont see how that many repenters would work, you'd be better off with vanquishers and a "few" repenters, I just love vanqs though for focus efficiency since reznik is always fighting for focus.

Yeah, but you need infantry to fuel the souls to power the jacks, Ret can do the same thing with lots of jack mashals, and I'm assuming other armies can (i'm not super versed in all the capabilities of all the armies) In fact my final-round loss at the last tourney I was at was against karchev (khador) and 3 jacks @ 25 pts, so thats a jack-caster, and 3 more, with a repair guy or two as support., thats pretty jack heavy, but it isn't a 40k esque "lol blood angel dread spamz!" style thing.
In all, against a spam list I break out the slams and throws, once the opponent has to spend 3/4ths of his focus standing his jacks up, breaking stationary, ect. he's pillow-fisted, best example I had was having an iron-aggressioned guardian get 4 pitch throws off, knocking down nearly an entire troll beast spam army >.>

But we're just talking, to original poster: Do it, I enjoy 40k fluff, and the thematic nature of it, but warmachine is a straight up better gameso many times I've grasped victory not because my dice were on fire or because my list was better, but by being clever with slams, pushes, and rules.
And the rules are awesome, there's very few special nonsense rules that you always have to remember for every model like 40k, and they're all generally worded cleanly.

 Grundz wrote:

I dont see how that many repenters would work, you'd be better off with vanquishers and a "few" repenters, I just love vanqs though for focus efficiency since reznik is always fighting for focus.
.

Well the actual list would look like something like this @ 50pts.

pSevvvy
6x Repenter
2x Reckoner
2x Max Choir
2x Vassal
1x Max TFG

Repenters are a very efficient way to buy boxes (26 for 4pts), and with ARM 17 are pretty resilient to the sorts of things that have the attack volume to hit 6 targets spread across a 16" control area.While they're hardly the freight train that our heavies are MAT8 POW16s do need to be respected. All this means your opponent can't just get sloppy and ignore them, which takes heat off your Reckoners, and they're just as capable of doing heavy lifting here as they are in any list.

You could do something broadly similar with Crusaders but I feel like that'd be more Harby's schtick. She helps slow melee beaters a lot more, and can make them dirt cheap with her theme list.

I'll grant it's a fairly sub-optimal list, but I think it's functional way to do something a bit off-beat and fun. Certainly it'd have some god-awful match ups (looking at you cygnar), but I can't think of much that'd leave me quaking in my boost across a broad spectrum of sort of B-Grade matchups.

Cryx could do a reasonable seether spam (points permitting) with their casters and if you were really inclined iron lich overseers due to the marshall bonus and the jack generating a point of focus anyway.

However if you're doing that with cryx, you're doing it wrong.

 motyak wrote:

 Havok210 wrote:

You can come across some really harsh lists, like eLylyth, 2 Ravagores, a shepherd and 2 deathstalkers at 20 points (or something along those lines, feat turn is brutal with that list). I still haven't managed to kill that off, but the guy who took that against me did it because it was part of a league and he knew I'm not the kind to get all arced up over facing something like that.

But I'm in a similar boat to Master Fett, I'm still relatively new to all this

The game is Balanced... and you can counter anything with the right build.. For example.. I stomped our local Legion players into the ground using elylyth lists hehe.. Using Epic Butchter and using two 25 armour no blast damage Demolisher.... they can shoot all they want, while butcher and mechanics hide behind the Demolisher in base to base contace ....

And to the OP.. Warmachine/hordes is the best balanced Table-top game I have played.. But it takes alot more skills to play then W40k.. And the rules are as writen, this can be hard when you come from W40k, where nothing is clear and more subjective...40k you have to search through 3 books to try and get an answer... In warmachine all relevent rules, and how cards should be used are in the main rulebook...

It is a much better system hands down..

ho One more thing Warmachine/horde fights are not won in the army building stage.. they are WON on the Table.. This is a very important diffrence from 40k... You have to actually be good at strategi, know how to place your models(they have back and front arches.. yes that is right you can get attacked in the back... ) you cant premesure anything (accept your own control area).. Skills, skills and more skills is what is needed to win in warmachine...

Chongara wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

I dont see how that many repenters would work, you'd be better off with vanquishers and a "few" repenters, I just love vanqs though for focus efficiency since reznik is always fighting for focus.
.

Well the actual list would look like something like this @ 50pts.

You know I was thinking redeemer not repenter (eg the 16" shooting one that needs 2 focus each turn) lol

 Grundz wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

I dont see how that many repenters would work, you'd be better off with vanquishers and a "few" repenters, I just love vanqs though for focus efficiency since reznik is always fighting for focus.
.

Well the actual list would look like something like this @ 50pts.

You know I was thinking redeemer not repenter (eg the 16" shooting one that needs 2 focus each turn) lol

Yeah I couldn't imagine running more than 2 Redeemers. They're good, but they're hungry. The repenters on the other hand are just dirt cheap for what they do just with their initial spray attack.

ho One more thing Warmachine/horde fights are not won in the army building stage.. they are WON on the Table.. This is a very important diffrence from 40k... You have to actually be good at strategi, know how to place your models(they have back and front arches.. yes that is right you can get attacked in the back... ) you cant premesure anything (accept your own control area).. Skills, skills and more skills is what is needed to win in warmachine...

I think this is an overstatement. The game has some really bad matchups in it (it's why multi-list formats are the norm in tourneys). Still I couldn't reasonably expect to bring the High Reclaimer against eLylyth and expect to get anything but a curb-stomping (assuming both lists competently built).