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Both levels of libbies get two powers.

Okay, cool. Well, I am planning to give it a try the next game I play, so I will see how the Sanguinary Priests with the Librarian HQ works out for me. Thanks again for all the information and guidance!

This thread and a recent BatRep I read have sold the heck out of Sternguard and Corb door-kicking into the enemy with a DP. Pairing that with a Fragnought /DP and Libby squad /DP for Shield coverage was something I had not thought about. Thanks for all the useful info.

@Martel, I follow your threads and posts alot and IMO, you are the go to guy for BA tactics. I have learned alot about how to work the BA codex in 6th from you. Thanks.

 B3AN wrote:
This thread and a recent BatRep I read have sold the heck out of Sternguard and Corb door-kicking into the enemy with a DP. Pairing that with a Fragnought /DP and Libby squad /DP for Shield coverage was something I had not thought about. Thanks for all the useful info.

@Martel, I follow your threads and posts alot and IMO, you are the go to guy for BA tactics. I have learned alot about how to work the BA codex in 6th from you. Thanks.

True indeed! I have only been on this forum for about a month, but the cream rises to the top. Thanks, @Martel!

In fact, any help from any of you who have been on this thread about how to fight Flying Greater Daemons with BA would be helpful too! Oh well, time to try out some of these tactics you guys have been giving me. I'll let you know how it goes this weekend if you are interested. Time to get back into the (daemon-infested) water!

The Sternguard thing is an attractive alternative to DC, because Sternguard do their thing immediately upon landing. So do fragnoughts. That's really my primary criteria. I find that too much can go wrong if I give the enemy a full turn to adjust. Like feed the DC a battle cannon. Hasn't happened to me, but a guy at my store almost flipped a table when the battle cannon template "HIT" on his tooled up death machine DC. I just hung my head.... another embarrassment for the supposedly mighty BA.

I kept lamenting the fact that a drop pod libby has no way to cast divination and then realized that shield of sangunius goes off on your opponents turn and so they are eligible to cast on that turn.

Note that the whole drop pod jumper list really has issues with lists that have superior HTH in my experience. Conceptually, its very BA, but all the familiar nerfs still hold it back.

Just for perspective, this list has lost every match against Space Cheese (Wolves). I keep trying because I bring my list as a TAC list without a prior knowledge. So this means I pick my list for the day and then see what my opponent is. So of course I keep getting Space Cheese when I pick this list.

The issue I'm having is working to the limitations of the foc...

I want to include a sternguard squad, and a fragnought. The problem is the third slot, I'd like to take another furioso but then miss out on priests and terminators.

As has been mentioned, the #1 drawback of the Divination LIbby is that he can't cast the turn he drops (Prescience, Perfect Timing, the 4++ and the overwatch powers are all excellent). I am having a hard time convincing myself either way on my HQ usage.

One option is to keep codex powers and leave him at home. He can use Shield from inside a Razorback to cast a fairly large bubble that gives your tanks a lot of freedom roam out in the open, instead of being more inclined to hide behind terrain all the time.

However, hiding behind a unit that drops for a turn, then being able to really buff up the survivors starting the next turn makes them far more dangerous. That you'll usually include a Priest in such a squad makes them much tougher to wipe out, and makes the next turn's Prescience/whatever that much better...

I could just include TWO librarians but...nah, they aren't actually, you know, "good" at the price we have to pay.

My jumper/drop list has two shield of sanguinius libbies in it. It works okay because they are basically shielding the entire list.

For 1999 and under, a single fragnought works fine. You need the priests to give the list FNP, including the sternguards.

If taking priests to give sternguard the 5+ FNP, wouldn't it better to give the accompanying libby prescience? Already getting increased survivability from the priests?

Why not just throw Brothe Corb in with the sternguard? He makes them super survivalable until the Libby can move up.

adam304 wrote:
If taking priests to give sternguard the 5+ FNP, wouldn't it better to give the accompanying libby prescience? Already getting increased survivability from the priests?

No, because you can't cast benedictions on the turn you drop. However, you CAN put the shield up on your opponent's shooting phase.

Martel732 wrote:

adam304 wrote:
If taking priests to give sternguard the 5+ FNP, wouldn't it better to give the accompanying libby prescience? Already getting increased survivability from the priests?

No, because you can't cast benedictions on the turn you drop. However, you CAN put the shield up on your opponent's shooting phase.

Martel is 100% correct on this. You get the 5+ cover save from Shield during your opponents shooting phase. Then what ever gets passed the Shield you can roll 5+ FNP. So you get 5+ Shield, the 3+ Armor Saves (if applicable), then 5+ FNP for everything else that makes it through. Very durable in my opinion.

 B3AN wrote:
So you get 5+ Shield, the 3+ Armor Saves (if applicable), then 5+ FNP for everything else that makes it through. Very durable in my opinion.

Well... you get the 5+ shield OR a 3+ armor save, then a 5+ FNP. Just to make that clear for anyone who got confused (:

Corbulo and Mephiston are both great special charecters. I play my friend who plays BA, and he has used both to great effect.

Don't know on Corbulo. a 2+ FNP is seriously no joke. You may say, yeah, shoot a high strength weapon. But you have to understand, he gets to decide whether to look out sir. And he definitely will if you shoot a high str instant death shot at the Corbulo unit with him out front.

So, now your precious lascannon shot kills a sternguard who has already shot his combi weapon instead of Corbulo. How many lascannons shots are you going to fire at that sternguard unit? You have to hit, wound and take down 5 before he is left on his own, and that's assuming he only brought 5 sternguard with Corbulo.

So, you are going to have to hit with 6 lascannon shots that must all wound to take out 1 Corbulo and his squad... Do the math. Its going to take a ton of shooting with high stength weapons to down that squad. Anything under str 8, Corbulo will tank with his armor save and 2+ FNP.

Mephiston is a monster with biomancy powers. Especially if he gets Iron Arm. That's now a guy with T7 to T9, with high strength, high initiative, and has a force weapon (instant death) to boot. Extremely scary. I think can take on Abbadon already.

 warpspider89 wrote:

 B3AN wrote:
So you get 5+ Shield, the 3+ Armor Saves (if applicable), then 5+ FNP for everything else that makes it through. Very durable in my opinion.

Well... you get the 5+ shield OR a 3+ armor save, then a 5+ FNP. Just to make that clear for anyone who got confused (:

Are you certain? I do not have the BRB at hand. I was under the impression that when fired upon, you confer your cover saves, then move to armor saves, then to your Invulnerable saves or FNP saves. Am I wrong on this? Can anyone else confirm? ( I know this is not the forum for that question, but I think its relevant to the topic.)

 B3AN wrote:
Are you certain? I do not have the BRB at hand. I was under the impression that when fired upon, you confer your cover saves, then move to armor saves, then to your Invulnerable saves or FNP saves. Am I wrong on this?

In WH40K you only get to use the best save (cover, armor or invulnerable) against each wound, then FNP if the wound didn't deny you that.

IIRC Fantasy Battle lets you use several saves?

Spetulhu wrote:

 B3AN wrote:
Are you certain? I do not have the BRB at hand. I was under the impression that when fired upon, you confer your cover saves, then move to armor saves, then to your Invulnerable saves or FNP saves. Am I wrong on this?

In WH40K you only get to use the best save (cover, armor or invulnerable) against each wound, then FNP if the wound didn't deny you that.

IIRC Fantasy Battle lets you use several saves?

Thank you for refreshing my memory. I'm still a bit new to the game. I know now that its a pretty basic rule.

Yes, just to confirm, Fantasy lets you take all 3 saves in a row. So some special characters (like Prince Tyrion of the High Elves, for instance) are practically unkillable. Still, even two 5+ saves in a row gives you a decent chance of weathering the storm all right, and the cover save will even ignore the instant-death causing high-Str weapon.

That said, besides Shield of Sangiunius, which other standard BA Psycher power would you take? Lance so he can hit back? Sword for close combat? Has anyone ever used the Assault 4 one?

The others are kind of a side show.

Martel is right, but I think the consensus is that Lance is the next best power. S8 AP1 is good, but be aware that you'll roll a 7" range every time you REALLY need to hit something, and you'll roll 20" every time you're standing 2" from the target.

Oh, what's that? That's just me? Fair enough.

No, blood lance has done that to me many times. I'm warming up to the one that makes people roll LD to tie their shoes. They'll very pedestrian compared to: ELDRAD MAKES MY ARMY INVISIBLE LOLZ ROFL YOU LOSE IMPERIAL!

After that fiasco, I developed the dual assault teams with all flamers in TL HF razor backs. Plus, they're dirt cheap and scare a surprising amount of people. Until, of course, good lists just shoot them. It's an act of will to even set up against Grey Knights.

Am I the only one who thinks Shield is a bit lame? It'd be so much more useful if it improved your cover save when youwere already in cover (i.e gave shrouded). We have a fast army so it's not difficult to get into cover (especially since we get armour saves on dangerous terrain tests.

I like the S110 attacks powers. Great for cutting through multi-wound model units (nobs & paladins etc).

D

Shield is downright crap compared to the 4++ divination power. But it can hit multiple units and it can be cast on your opponents turn, letting your lowly level 1 psyker do something useful every turn.

I can see the slight advantages it offers but it'll never be my first choice. I'd consider it with my libby on a bike behind the av13 wall with dark shroud allies in. 4+ cover on av13 sounds pretty rude. Atleast until the Tau strip it away.

D

I LOVE Mephiston and typically run him with his standard selection of powers. I have never regretted it.

I just started running Corbulo in my Sternguard drop pod and he single-handedly turned a one-shot wonder squad into a game-long hassle for my opponent.

Can't speak highly enough of those two.

As for the rest, I would like to try Tycho, but haven't yet. I love the idea of the guy with the S8 chainsword (forget his name), but don't seem him as viable.

I also like the idea of the libby HQ... need to play around with that one some more... 8)

^The guy (with S8 chainsword) you're talking about is Gabriel Seth btw.

 evildrcheese wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Shield is a bit lame?

It might seem that way at first, but by far its biggest benefit is that you can guarantee getting it without having to roll. Also, as mentioned it's cast in your opponent's turn so not only is that 50 points you've just saved not having to upgrade to Epistolary, but units you've Deep Striked in on your own turn get to benefit as well.
It shows its use far more in armies that make the most of it - Razorback spam used to be the norm here, but Dantewing Sanguinary Guard and Death Company spam from Astorath make use of it too (in the latter, you often have big units on foot or in transport spam due to the cost of jump packs).

The biggest problems are that shield of sanguinius does nothing in HTH and templates ignore it.