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rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
So would you agree (Deathreaper) Rigeld that the best save is always the lowest?.

Well yes - that's what the rules say.

If I shoot your marines behind a aegis defence line (DR) what would be the lowest save? GTG for a 2 plus I would think, would you agree?

The lowest save available is a 3+ from their armor. If they go to ground they'd get a 2+ cover save.
There's no requirement to go to ground and if they don't, the 2+ isn't available as a save.

But as you said it is available to them so the best save, assuming it isnt ignoring cover will always be the GTG 2plus cover save. GTG is optional but if you always have to use the best save then you are forcing yourself to GTG.

IF you use the 3plus armour save you are not using the best save available to them.

As rigeld said, getting the 2+ save requires an additional action on the SM players part. There is no requirement for the player to take that action in order to get a different (albeit better) save...

tgf wrote:

sam918 wrote:
They both cancel each other out, so no re-rolling.

Completely incorrect. There is no conflict.

A die may only be rerolled once.

Successful saves will be re-rolled
1's will be re-rolled.

So assume a 5+ invulnerable save fairly standard demons

5 and 6 are rerolled due to null zone - new result stands
2 to 4 are failures neither rule impacts these
1 is rerolled due to tzentch - new result stands

this....

seriously people its not that hard, I cast mistfortune on fortuned eldar all the time, and thats how it goes strickly, RAW you reroll the successes/failures and accept the 2nd result.

in the case of null rod vs tzeench rerolling 1's, its still clear, reroll the sucesses, and the 1's, and accept 2nd results.

MarkyMark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
So would you agree (Deathreaper) Rigeld that the best save is always the lowest?.

Well yes - that's what the rules say.

If I shoot your marines behind a aegis defence line (DR) what would be the lowest save? GTG for a 2 plus I would think, would you agree?

The lowest save available is a 3+ from their armor. If they go to ground they'd get a 2+ cover save.
There's no requirement to go to ground and if they don't, the 2+ isn't available as a save.

But as you said it is available to them so the best save, assuming it isnt ignoring cover will always be the GTG 2plus cover save. GTG is optional but if you always have to use the best save then you are forcing yourself to GTG.

No, I never said it was available. I said it's available if they go to ground. Since going to ground isn't forced, if you opt not to GTG you don't have a 2+ save available.

But you can go to ground so it IS available to them.

The 2plus GTG save is better then any save bar terminators and the like, if you have to use the best save you model has then would the 2 plus save not be the best for marines guard warriors etc etc etc?.

The best save rule does not mention anything about modifers GTG etc but as GTG is covered in the saves section of the book it is available to them.

Except the models don't have that save at the time we are talking about... They would have to perform some other action (GTG) in order to then- at that point- have it available... It doesn't tell us to perform any other action except to use the best save available at that moment, which it does not have if it hasn't gone to ground...

you go to ground before saves are made, so if you HAVE GtG, and the cover is then the best save, yes you use it...

the decision to GtG is made before saves are rolled, and might change what your best save is, but a save as the result of a choice you HAVE NOT MADE YET is not your best save, its a theoretical save you would have IF you made the choice to GtG