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 cincydooley wrote:
They've provided organized play packs. They hosted tournaments and events. What else should they be doing?

In the US but outside the US the support FFG gave was a bit less than nothing.

People keep coming back to the idea that FFG dumped Dust.
I've said it before but I will say it again: FFG did not dump Dust, it was Dust Studio who didn't want to renew the contract with FFG.

Dust Warfare was under license with FFG and Dust Studio own all the rights to both Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare. Both games will from now on be supported by Dust Studio.
Battlefront will handle distribution worldwide.

Well, here's hoping that the release schedule will be kicked up a notch and that the releases will reach us non-US customers a bit sooner.

 cincydooley wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

wilycoyote wrote:
Interesting thought about FFG's relationship with GW.

Some games like Blood Bowl woul dmesh nicely with FFG's existing line.BFG with its multiple races would fit into FFg's add a box every month selling philosophy.

Again though you have to feel it us us the more dupes who again are let down by these bifg companies. WE invest a large amount of cash on the product only to be told the next day - nah we do not want to support you now

Please. You don't "invest" a dime. You purchase consumer products. And FFG has supported Dust VERY well over the course of their stewardship.

Respectfully, they've "supported it well" in terms of product releases, quality control, etc.... absolutely true.

They've been abysmal stewards of it as a game, did nothing to support/foster a community.

In essense they treated it the way they would one of their games, but not so much the specific way a miniatures game needs to be treated/supported.

Have you looked into the organized play packs, they are essentially a joke. This is an amazing move for dust.

They've provided organized play packs. They hosted tournaments and events. What else should they be doing?

Just to be safe, I just went a little crazy and placed one last big order on Coolstuff. I picked up preorders on all the last releases, since God knows how large a run they will even get, and also make sure to buy a few extra of any unit like SSU Close Combat, Gorillas, Zombies, etc... that work well in multiples, in case my "own one of everything" rule ever bit me in the ass, and the game was gone. :p

A little bit too many rumors and to few facts:

Allow me to correct this:

> There are times when both partners realize that they are heading in different directions and part on friendly terms. This happened back then when AEG realized that they would not be able to get new models out the door at a quicker pace. FFG did not dump Dust and Dust Studio did not part in anger, no matter what someone else might say.

> This is not the death of Dust. Actually it will work out for the better since Dust Studio can tap now more resources than before.

> Dust Studio still owns Dust Tactics and Warfare and this will not change.

> There will be improvements in the coming months.

Enjoy Dust and have a nice day.

I wonder if this means Warfare will finally get support instead of being treated like an unwanted stepchild.

New publisher would make a good oppurtunity to go through and rebalance things. Maybe they'll make laser grenadiers finally decent and/or get rid of the Andy Chambers range penalty.

Good news, I think Dust will be better served with this move.

RogueRegault wrote:
I wonder if this means Warfare will finally get support instead of being treated like an unwanted stepchild.

New publisher would make a good oppurtunity to go through and rebalance things. Maybe they'll make laser grenadiers finally decent and/or get rid of the Andy Chambers range penalty.

So, I know Dust Tactics was a necessary evil, to help pay for the production, as it appeals to a wider/different crowd... but I don't know anyone who has legitimately played both, who didn't feel like Dust Warfare was definitively the superior game. As such... i'm with you, they really need to push DW harder and support it more widely.

That said, the Andy Chambers range penalty sucked, but only because he couldn't think of a better fix for such a random mechanic. I do hope lasers on the whole get remixed. I know it is the risk of using them, but it is weird playing games where they feel absurdly over-powered, and others when they do essentially nothing. :-p

so when dose the FFG fire sale start?

Olivier Zamfirescu (of Dust Studio) just posted
Hi everyone,
this is what happens sometimes when you get out of the office for a few hours: you have too many messages to read when you get back! Now that the DUST has settled (good one right?), I'm going to jump in and try to answer all the questions you have asked.

First of all, I read ALL your concerns about us working with a new partner, Battlefront. It has made me very happy to see that some of you would be so concerned: it means that you care and so you must like what we make. So we must do some things right, otherwise you wouldn't care. Right?

Onto details now:
Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare miniatures are not going to change scale. Period. We have a TON of things planned, and as Paolo mentioned a few weeks ago we are already working on the miniatures that will be released in 2015... And I still have a pretty good idea of what's happening after that. So no worries here. You're stuck with us FOR YEARS.

Also as Paolo said recently, 15 mm (1/100 scale) is something we both love. Do we want to do something in this scale? Yes. When? I don't know. What shape / form / etc? No idea yet.
Well, I have a few ideas actually, but they are just that: ideas. In my twisted mind only. Yet.
Will this one day mean the end of the 30 mm (1/48 scale)? NO. We have so many things we want to share with you. We are always trying to increase the quality of our miniatures and are not done trying. Believe me the last thing we want to do is to stop.

I think it's also important to explain that the decision to change partner was mutual. Many people don't believe it when this is said but in this case it's true. It is quite difficult to explain, so you kinda have to take my word for it. One company wanted to focus on its core activities. The other one wanted to continue to grow, discover new horizons. There are no hard feelings, there's no fight. It was time for a change and we're all certain here that it's a change for the better.

Of course Paolo, Vincent and I are very attached to Dust Tactics. It's our baby. The game we have been wanting to make for years and years. I think the first time I heard Paolo talk about it was in late 2000 or early 2001. So, yes, we care a lot about it. But that doesn't mean we don't care about Dust Warfare as well. I don't know where some of you got the idea that we didn't care. There is absolutely NO WAY we're going to abandon Warfare players. We're going to do everything we can to make the transition from one team to another go as smoothly as possible. I hope there won't be any delays and that Warfare fans will be able to enjoy new units as quickly as possible after their release. Whatever happens, please believe that Dust Warfare is very important for the whole Studio and that it will have our support for a long time. As the title of the announcement says, Battlefront is to take over distribution of Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare. No one thinks about abandoning anything. We're just changing how things will be distributed. Of course some things are going to change as Dust Warfare was a licensed game. But again we all think it will be for the better.

About prices: recently Paolo explained quite frankly that there would be a price increase this year. There are many explanations to this, and NONE are linked to us teaming with Battlefront. Plastic is more expensive. Paper is more expensive. Manufacturing is more expensive. Shipping is more expensive. Just to name a few. Even with the price increase, I still think that we offer a very affordable range of games and miniatures at a very competitive price. Sure that's just my opinion.
I know some will find that our products are always too expensive. That's the problem with miniature gaming: you always find it too expensive. I've been collecting miniatures for the past 28 years, and they were already too expensive then. But when I see what we offer I'm very comfortable with the price we have. I don't want to compare with anything our competitors do, it's useless. But if you honestly look at what we do, I think you will agree with me.

And at last I would like to talk a little about what's coming. We have GREAT stuff to be released in the next few months. We have AMAZING models coming up. Much awaited units are going to join your armies and I'm quite certain you're gonna love them. The changes are not going to change this in any way: if you already like our miniatures, you won't be disappointed. And if you like our games you will continue to enjoy them for many years to come.

Happy gaming to all,

Olivier.

Gamingdog wrote:
so when dose the FFG fire sale start?

I'm very curious to see how this will play out. Considering the announcement said things will essentially be the status quo until existing FFG stock is gone, I'm wondering if they'll want to walk away quickly or not.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Dust Tactics and Dust Warfare miniatures are not going to change scale. Period. We have a TON of things planned, and as Paolo mentioned a few weeks ago we are already working on the miniatures that will be released in 2015...

Coming in late 2015... Dusty Flames of Warfare.. the new alternate universe setting for Flames of War that you can use your existing 15mm historical figs in along with the new scifi robot walkers... and the new focus for Dust Studios. Combined with a progressive slowdown in Dust Warfare 30mm releases in 2015 due to the influx of players from the 15mm historical side taking priority, you have a scenario that matches both what people here have mentioned as well as what is listed above in the official statement. I've got no dog in this fight but it's an entirely reasonable and frankly likely scenario when a 28mm alternate WWII minis company forms a partnership with the largest 15mm WWII minis company (who happens to have sales that dwarf the former).

I wonder how long it will take before we get overpriced premium painted 15mm minis on the Exclusives part of the Dust-Models site?

as for getting my last units at the best price, i"m torn. Grab them now from the likes of Mini Market before they are cleaned out, or, alternately, wait a few weeks and see if some even better price reduction happens.

Any thoughts gents?

 BrookM wrote:
I wonder how long it will take before we get overpriced premium painted 15mm minis on the Exclusives part of the Dust-Models site?

Be Fair. The DUST prepaints are actually a pretty decent quality and aren't that embarassingly priced, especially for a board game type that has no interest in painting.

As to the 15mm:

Has to be in the works, especially considering that DUST teamed with Heroes of Normandie for an expansion when one of the HoN selling points was that you could actual minis too if you wanted.

 cincydooley wrote:

Has to be in the works, especially considering that DUST teamed with Heroes of Normandie for an expansion when one of the HoN selling points was that you could actual minis too if you wanted.

Interesting... didn't know that. It seems to me that 15mm figs would be a better literal fit for the cards in that board game compared with the current 28mm large based ones.

 warboss wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

Has to be in the works, especially considering that DUST teamed with Heroes of Normandie for an expansion when one of the HoN selling points was that you could actual minis too if you wanted.

Interesting... didn't know that. It seems to me that 15mm figs would be a better literal fit for the cards in that board game compared with the current 28mm large based ones.

Oh good call. I think I'd actually like playing Dust Tactics a lot more if it was 15mm.....

silent25 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Interesting, I guess this means FFG is moving away from minis again.

FFG dumping miniature games.

GW dumping Specialist Games.

FFG produces games GW has abandoned.

I think the SG dump just took an interesting turn.

No matter how much I wish this was the case, from what the Dust Studios chap was saying it seems much more likely that FFG just want to refocus themselves on RPGs and a few boardgames.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
as for getting my last units at the best price, i"m torn. Grab them now from the likes of Mini Market before they are cleaned out, or, alternately, wait a few weeks and see if some even better price reduction happens.

Any thoughts gents?

Rather than risk the later, I and my group all placed a mass-order together from Coolstuff last night. My thinking is, if the game genuinely hits liquidation price later for FFG boxed/branded units, i'll take the change to fill in extra platoons, etc... of particularly versatile units.... but I don't want to risk missing out on stuff when we don't know how long it will be before older models get re-releases/distribution. My thinking is that the last units, the Allied plane, etc... will be in pretty short supply, and might be the last things to see from a new distributor (i'd imagine they'll want newer versions of the core-set, etc... out the door first).

I will say, i'm only worried about DW because based on Olivier's own comments, DW was a licensed system. Some portion of it is getting lost in translation, by his own admission, as a result of something within said licensing agreement. Does this mean simple changes to the layout of the book, its credits, etc... in a newer release, or are some fundamental elements going to be changed?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
as for getting my last units at the best price, i"m torn. Grab them now from the likes of Mini Market before they are cleaned out, or, alternately, wait a few weeks and see if some even better price reduction happens.

Any thoughts gents?

Rather than risk the later, I and my group all placed a mass-order together from Coolstuff last night. My thinking is, if the game genuinely hits liquidation price later for FFG boxed/branded units, i'll take the change to fill in extra platoons, etc... of particularly versatile units.... but I don't want to risk missing out on stuff when we don't know how long it will be before older models get re-releases/distribution. My thinking is that the last units, the Allied plane, etc... will be in pretty short supply, and might be the last things to see from a new distributor (i'd imagine they'll want newer versions of the core-set, etc... out the door first).

I will say, i'm only worried about DW because based on Olivier's own comments, DW was a licensed system. Some portion of it is getting lost in translation, by his own admission, as a result of something within said licensing agreement. Does this mean simple changes to the layout of the book, its credits, etc... in a newer release, or are some fundamental elements going to be changed?

Yeah, my first reaction was to go to MM and get the DW campaign books and new releases I didn't already have. Prices are reasonable enough that even if they end up on heavily discounted soon, I won't beat myself up.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

RogueRegault wrote:
I wonder if this means Warfare will finally get support instead of being treated like an unwanted stepchild.

New publisher would make a good oppurtunity to go through and rebalance things. Maybe they'll make laser grenadiers finally decent and/or get rid of the Andy Chambers range penalty.

So, I know Dust Tactics was a necessary evil, to help pay for the production, as it appeals to a wider/different crowd... but I don't know anyone who has legitimately played both, who didn't feel like Dust Warfare was definitively the superior game. As such... i'm with you, they really need to push DW harder and support it more widely.

That said, the Andy Chambers range penalty sucked, but only because he couldn't think of a better fix for such a random mechanic. I do hope lasers on the whole get remixed. I know it is the risk of using them, but it is weird playing games where they feel absurdly over-powered, and others when they do essentially nothing. :-p

I've played both, dust tactics was garbage. Too simple, too boring.

Warfare was fantastic, yeah, a few issues, but most rule books have issues more so with first edition.

Models are fantastic too, considering the price, I was expecting to see poor quality.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I wonder how long it will take before we get overpriced premium painted 15mm minis on the Exclusives part of the Dust-Models site?

Be Fair. The DUST prepaints are actually a pretty decent quality and aren't that embarassingly priced, especially for a board game type that has no interest in painting.

As to the 15mm:

Has to be in the works, especially considering that DUST teamed with Heroes of Normandie for an expansion when one of the HoN selling points was that you could actual minis too if you wanted.

Dust prepaints are awesome, Thought they were better than the AT-43 pre-paints, which I thought were the best pre-painted minis that I have seen first hand.

 cincydooley wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
I wonder how long it will take before we get overpriced premium painted 15mm minis on the Exclusives part of the Dust-Models site?

Be Fair. The DUST prepaints are actually a pretty decent quality and aren't that embarassingly priced, especially for a board game type that has no interest in painting.

And it doesn't effect people that like to paint themselves, so best of both world, good thing for a game.

 Yodhrin wrote:

silent25 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Interesting, I guess this means FFG is moving away from minis again.

FFG dumping miniature games.

GW dumping Specialist Games.

FFG produces games GW has abandoned.

I think the SG dump just took an interesting turn.

No matter how much I wish this was the case, from what the Dust Studios chap was saying it seems much more likely that FFG just want to refocus themselves on RPGs and a few boardgames.

More likely they want to focus on Star Wars.

I would not be surprised if they announced a Star Wars mini game sometime next year.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

silent25 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Interesting, I guess this means FFG is moving away from minis again.

FFG dumping miniature games.

GW dumping Specialist Games.

FFG produces games GW has abandoned.

I think the SG dump just took an interesting turn.

No matter how much I wish this was the case, from what the Dust Studios chap was saying it seems much more likely that FFG just want to refocus themselves on RPGs and a few boardgames.

More likely they want to focus on Star Wars.

I would not be surprised if they announced a Star Wars mini game sometime next year.

And considering the treatment, Dust, Battlelore, and essentially any foray they've ever made into miniatures gaming, got, I could never, ever support them.

RogueRegault wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

silent25 wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Interesting, I guess this means FFG is moving away from minis again.

FFG dumping miniature games.

GW dumping Specialist Games.

FFG produces games GW has abandoned.

I think the SG dump just took an interesting turn.

No matter how much I wish this was the case, from what the Dust Studios chap was saying it seems much more likely that FFG just want to refocus themselves on RPGs and a few boardgames.

More likely they want to focus on Star Wars.

I would not be surprised if they announced a Star Wars mini game sometime next year.

Last year at Gencon, during ffg's confrence, the dice tower said ffg hinted towards another miniatures game.

I would assume something like Wizards of the Coast miniatures. 28 - 32ish miniatures.

Probably same format as the current xwing. blister with a pre-painted mini. Starter with 4 minis.

and tokens.

lots and lots of tokens.

If it doesn't have tokens, it's not FFG.