Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Why can't the final destination be exactly like that cheesecat?

I've never understood why religions have to be exclusive, I think the most important part of religion are the parts where they try to teach you to be a better person, unfortunately this seems to be the bit that people miss the most.

The most interesting thing I have heard/read about religion recently is that "YHWH" of judaism fame is not a jewish god per se but more like the head deity of that region given a hebrew (un-)name

Christian. specifically Mormon.

I've learned that I have no idea what's on the other side and neither does anybody else. I just have a best guess.

I'm agnostic. I can't prove a deity doesn't exist, but no one can prove a deity does either. I guess I don't really believe in one.

If Cthulhu does rise from the depths, I'll swallow my pride and admit I was wrong.

Essentially I believe in what I believe, and those beliefs will probably have links to all sorts of organised religions.

I believe in some sort of higher power or powers (not necessarily benevolent, either), but I'll be fethed if I can explain it/them, and to be honest, I don't quite care. I have better things to worry about than something that, if it does exist, I have no control over, and if it doesn't, then fine.

I believe in some form of afterlife, but again, I couldn't even begin to explain what it is. Reincarnation? Perhaps. Heaven? Perhaps. Pitch black void? Perhaps. Sod all? Perhaps. Like higher powers, I have no control over it, so why bother worry about it. If there's a bridge there, then I'll cross it when I get to it.

Am I right? Feth knows. Am I wrong? Feth knows. Is it worth me worrying about it all? Not really, no. Should I just go about my life as best I can? Yes.

To me, religion is unimportant, so it takes a backseat and if it says "Are we there yet?" one more damn time then I AM TURNING THIS FRICKING CAR AROUND AND DRIVING STRAIGHT BACK HOME!

Well i say im christian to make sure my family doesnt kill me.
But im not sure what I am. Im not sure i want to follow the teachings of one church because it goes against my philosophy that god wants us to be open minded to all possibilities in the world. And orginized religion scares me, they often seem to not be doing good for the sake of good, but for their own soul.

Hotsauceman , read about all the religions you can. Get a koran (translated of course) it's a pretty good book, doesn't mean you have to become a muslim or anything, it's just a very eye opening read considering all the misinformation that gets thrown around about the religion. I spose your family would have a problem with that , but it's the same god after all.
Also very good for information about Mohammed / Islam is books by karen armstrong like http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8489.Muhammad Pretty balanced and actually look into the historical and sociological background to Mohammed and the Koran.

It makes a nice change from reading bs like this :http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
Why people keep banging on about mohammed being a child molester because he married a girl at 13 is beyond me. Greeks married girls as young as 9. Alot of people in the past married girls younger than our age of consent or optionally married into what we would call incestuous unions nowdays. /end rant

Quote from that site "The Qur'an is not an authentic book or revelation. Much of the Qur'an was copied from early Christian texts." AHAHAHHAHAHA, I think they have not even read the book.

I don't suggest getting the bagavad gita , 2 sentences have over 2 paragraphs of explanation :/ .

Maybe get the Nag Hammadi bible, I'm partway through it atm and it's a good read, very different from mathew, mark, luke and john.

I agree with you about organised religion, for me religion is a personal thing, the need to meet people with the exact same ideas/morals ect strikes me as weird.

My family would have a hissy fit about it, thinking im supporting terrorists or something.
I remember the time i told my mom i didnt want to go to church anymore because i dont support it she had a hissy fit and tried to shame me, saying my friends wouldnt like me anymore and my family would disown me.

Bullockist wrote:
I'm finding my tolerance level is going up as i get older (which is probably the opposite of most people) ,

Depends on the person... some people get set into their narrow little mindset as they get older, while others (I suspect those who put more effort into getting out and experiencing stuff) eventually start to realise that all of that stuff that they knew with absolute certainty in their teens and early 20's, they actually don't know halfway near as much about as they thought...

I don't identify as Buddhist per se, but what I know of the fundamentals explains a lot very well. I think it's more like a philosophy than a religion, though.

So how does Ominism work, in practice?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My family would have a hissy fit about it, thinking im supporting terrorists or something.
I remember the time i told my mom i didnt want to go to church anymore because i dont support it she had a hissy fit and tried to shame me, saying my friends wouldnt like me anymore and my family would disown me.

Well that was very unchristian of her, in fact it reeks of the attitude Jesus railed against in the saducees/pharisees.I don't think Jesus promoted emotional blackmail, interestingly in john (least it hink it's johm, might be luke) Jesus family try to take him away from his preaching, probably with their own emotional blackmail. Oh well that's people isn't it.

After reading your post I am thankful my two parents are scientists and didn't have that kind of interferance in my development of my beliefs / intellect.

Good luck , kid


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ouze wrote:
So how does Ominism work, in practice?

For me it works like this; For me all gods are the same god/s, powers , whatever. They all seem to revolve around human belief, treating others better and having a moral code. As long as you aren't using your religion to victimise others I'm fine with it. "want me to go to the temple/ witness mansion / church ect " "sure" . I don't pray to ask for things,. I just give thanks for what I have.
I also don't blame a religion because some part of it are misusing the religion, there are bad parts to all faiths, but all faiths have something to teach us.

Maybe my type of Ominism is more a philosophy, but i still pray so I'm sure since i believe it has to be a religion.

Best part about Ominism is the ability to enjoy a lot of things and not get hung up on righteous indignation (that i do with politics ). I'll pray in any religious place (and non religious places), I'll read any religious book, I'll attend any religious ceremony, I'll enjoy my time with people of "other" faiths.

Why be narrow when you can be wide open?

I go about once a year to an aboriginal womens' sacred site, I have been going there since i was about 6 (when we first went there we didn't know what it was). I go there and sit one one of the rocks , like i have always done and feel tremendous peace. It is actually amazing to go and sit there for 15 mins to half an hour and soak up the feeling. I don't wear red and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to sit on one of the rocks ( my favourite to sit on i found out years later is called the lady) but I'm sure if i was doing the wrong thing I wouldn't get the amazing feeling of peace (I've never experienced anything like it). It's kinda amusing to see tour groups go through it with the local guides and miss the whole experience, still I hope one day those people come back and experience the peace.

Although I must admit from what I've read aboiut Wicca I am biased against it. It all seems to focus on the Goddess and fail to mention the Horned God, Paganism used to be based on retaining balance and Wicca seems badly skewed one way, but maybe I have read the wrong books.

I'm a very, very chill Apatheist. Right now my goals are centered in what reward this life has rather then the afterlife if such a thing is real.

Bullockist wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
My family would have a hissy fit about it, thinking im supporting terrorists or something.
I remember the time i told my mom i didnt want to go to church anymore because i dont support it she had a hissy fit and tried to shame me, saying my friends wouldnt like me anymore and my family would disown me.

Well that was very unchristian of her, in fact it reeks of the attitude Jesus railed against in the saducees/pharisees.I don't think Jesus promoted emotional blackmail, interestingly in john (least it hink it's johm, might be luke) Jesus family try to take him away from his preaching, probably with their own emotional blackmail. Oh well that's people isn't it.

After reading your post I am thankful my two parents are scientists and didn't have that kind of interferance in my development of my beliefs / intellect.

Good luck , kid

Funny thing, The friend she said wouldnt like me anymore because i wouldnt go to church? HE is mormon who lied in utah, his father made them leave because his father was tired of the judgemental nature in utah that he experianced. So my friend is more open minded. We have had conversations at length about god and i have told him my feelings, he understands.
My plan though is to just deal with it and when i leave the house find my own way.

I would be most interested in hearing the two Ominists out there talk a bit about their belief systems.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

Bullockist wrote:
I'm finding my tolerance level is going up as i get older (which is probably the opposite of most people) ,

Depends on the person... some people get set into their narrow little mindset as they get older, while others (I suspect those who put more effort into getting out and experiencing stuff) eventually start to realise that all of that stuff that they knew with absolute certainty in their teens and early 20's, they actually don't know halfway near as much about as they thought...

It's kind of funny like that. My best friend (whom is probably a better friend to me than I deserve) is a genuine and rock solid Catholic. He defends creationism as a valid possibility (while admitting it's not a truth). I used to call him out on it, and go to great extents to try to show him how religion in general likely invalid.

Nowadays? I gotta respect him for being able to keep his faith. I certainly don't agree with him or believe anything his says, but part of me genuinely wishes I could have that kind of faith in something.

scroll up two posts daed

Gah. I need to read all of the thread before asking questions already answered. That's 0100 posting for you. I also enjoy reading about, and sometimes experiencing, belief systems, but I don't really get any spiritual anything out of them. At least, nothing what I would consider spiritual. It's more of a matter of just trying to comprehend the people.

Thank you for the post.

Personally I'm not religious; I'd usually describe myself as agnostic. I do have friends who find their faith an important part of their lives though; so I try to be as accepting of it as possible. To me; it doesn't matter what you believe, you be nice to others, and they'll usually be nice to you. What I'm not a fan of however is people who try to push their faith onto others, regardless of what it is.

But at the end of the day, I try to be respectful to those of different faiths; and usually they do the same, so it all works out fine.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

To me, religion is unimportant, so it takes a backseat and if it says "Are we there yet?" one more damn time then I AM TURNING THIS FRICKING CAR AROUND AND DRIVING STRAIGHT BACK HOME!

This made my morning.

I'm Onanistic. Millitant Onanistic!

Seriously, raised Catholic, now probably agnostic/lapsed Catholic. I have no problem with the most core teachings of the church and will defend against allot of the rubbish that is said about it. Equally I think it has done alot of indefensible stuff, although hopefully it will begin to atone for it's sins. There are many less central teachings that I do not agree with and think are not for the modern world, but that is true of allot of teachings (not just religious).

The one thing that annoyes me more than anything about religion is smug people who tell others there beliefs are right and others are wrong, or laugh and belittle others beliefs, be that religious or athist. To show people there beliefs are wrong when they harm others, or can be shown to be demonstratably false, is fine, but don't attack people just because they belive something you do not (even if they have no proof of the truth, as long as you have no proof either).

To many arguments about religion happen not because of a knowledge of something but because of lack of knowledge, often on both sides. That and the judging people on the basis of what others have done.

Two important things I take from my religion:

Love thy neighbour
Judge not lest ye be judged

Or, be excellent to each other!

Everything else, in any belief system, should be secondary.

I'm British therefore Church of England by default as are most people in secular Britain. Do not be confused this is not a religious belief on our part. To explain;

I do not believe in any Gods (rock doesn't count right?) or attend church but by saying your Church of England you get to use the cool church's for weddings and what not. It's win win really.

Also by saying your CoE everyone knows your not the same as them but are decent enough to tip your hat to the established status quo of this land. This means no one has to mention religion again.

It's a pretty sweet system and one that adds to the general harmony of the place. It also means that extreme views on most things are shunned or more likely mocked. OTT aethiests are as likely to get laughed at as extreme Christians or Muslims.

Off on a tangent In many ways I have always though Brits have more in common with Sikhs which is why they assimilate into our society so well (that and they tend to love a drink like us too).

That's all I have on religion.

And now that you mentioned Church of England I have Eddie Izzard stuck in my head...

I am moving the thread to the Polls forum.

 notprop wrote:

Off on a tangent In many ways I have always though Brits have more in common with Sikhs which is why they assimilate into our society so well (that and they tend to love a drink like us too).

Good beer and Cricket. The two hallmarks of civilisation (as the aussies show, it has to be GOOD beer).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
And now that you mentioned Church of England I have Eddie Izzard stuck in my head...

Tempted to open a new pole, Cake or Death... Although I suspect it would be closed very fast...

Steve steveson wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
And now that you mentioned Church of England I have Eddie Izzard stuck in my head...

Tempted to open a new pole, Cake or Death... Although I suspect it would be closed very fast...

It would be skewed anyway since only three people can choose cake...

Why no option for orthodox Ecclesiarchy sanctioned Emperor worship?

Bullockist wrote:
Hotsauceman , read about all the religions you can. Get a koran (translated of course) it's a pretty good book, doesn't mean you have to become a muslim or anything, it's just a very eye opening read considering all the misinformation that gets thrown around about the religion. I spose your family would have a problem with that , but it's the same god after all.
Also very good for information about Mohammed / Islam is books by karen armstrong like http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8489.Muhammad Pretty balanced and actually look into the historical and sociological background to Mohammed and the Koran.

I actually wouldn't recommend either "Muhammad" or "Islam." Karen Armstrong is not a scholar; her books are very much skewed toward presenting _____ religion in the best light possible in the interest of fostering pluralism in her readers. The Qu'ran, while a somewhat interesting read, isn't actually as relevant as westerners tend to think it is. Ijtihad (individual interpretation of the Qu'ran) does exist, but only in a limited capacity for most "orthodox"* Muslims. Hadith and works of jurisprudence (shariah) play a more important role in day-to-day life for both sunni and shia. If you want a more in depth analysis of Muhammad's life, I'd recommend Watt's "Muhammad at Mecca" and "Muhammad at Medina." Though some might argue against them due to their relative age and what might be perceived as an apologist attitude on Watt's part they are still excellently written and thorough works.

Bullockist wrote:
It makes a nice change from reading bs like this :http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
Why people keep banging on about mohammed being a child molester because he married a girl at 13 is beyond me. Greeks married girls as young as 9. Alot of people in the past married girls younger than our age of consent or optionally married into what we would call incestuous unions nowdays. /end rant

Keep in mind that marriage and consummation are two different things. Greeks and Romans arranged marriages at young age, but consummation occurred after puberty. Generally speaking, the bride wouldn't even be sent to the husband's home until they were both of age.
Aisha's circumstances were different; she was between 6 and 7 at their marriage. According to accounts allegedly written by Aisha herself, she was called away from playing on her swing to consummate their marriage and this happened when she was between ages 9 and 10. There's no prior mention in her writing of reaching puberty, so we're left with a question. It's not out of the question that she could have matured quickly, but an age that young would have been frowned upon even in the most bacchanalian of Greek circles. There are, however, some interesting theories that suggest her age was deliberately reduced in the tradition (to emphasize her virginity) and those are worth looking into.

Bullockist wrote:
I don't suggest getting the bagavad gita , 2 sentences have over 2 paragraphs of explanation :/

Reading the Bhagavad Gita with the same methodology as the bible will be frustrating; they don't occupy parallel roles. If you want to embark on an exploration of "Hinduism" I'd suggest reading some of Shankara's work alongside commentary. It's as good a starting point as any on advaita vedanta, which many might consider the 'purest' or 'highest' form of "hinduism."** I'd recommend "The Essential Vedanta" http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Vedanta-Advaita-Treasures-Religions/dp/0941532526

Bullockist wrote:
I agree with you about organised religion, for me religion is a personal thing, the need to meet people with the exact same ideas/morals ect strikes me as weird.

It's not so strange, really. Community brings comfort.

*An ambiguous term if there ever was one.
**I've put these words in quotes to denote their contentious nature in this context. Indian religion/culture is nowhere near as cohesive as the Abrahamic religions.

 notprop wrote:
I do not believe in any Gods (rock doesn't count right?) or attend church but by saying your Church of England you get to use the cool church's for weddings and what not. It's win win really.

This confuses me... If you're not Christian, why would you want a Christian wedding...?

Is there such a thing as a Discordian Catholic Protestant Taoist? That's me.

 insaniak wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I do not believe in any Gods (rock doesn't count right?) or attend church but by saying your Church of England you get to use the cool church's for weddings and what not. It's win win really.

This confuses me... If you're not Christian, why would you want a Christian wedding...?

For the same reason vampire hunters don't need to be Catholic to use holy water.

Wiccan

 The Bringer wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I do not believe in any Gods (rock doesn't count right?) or attend church but by saying your Church of England you get to use the cool church's for weddings and what not. It's win win really.

This confuses me... If you're not Christian, why would you want a Christian wedding...?

For the same reason vampire hunters don't need to be Catholic to use holy water.

I don't know what that is supposed to mean.