Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Augh! The .... Cleaner!!!!!!!!

Yeah.. but it needs to be significantly larger, alas..

On topic.. the ONLY thing I can think of as a WHFB advantage is name recognition and possibility of finding opponents.

Some people complain of KOW goblins, but from the pictures I see, the look good.

 Capt. Camping wrote:
Some people complain of KOW goblins, but from the pictures I see, the look good.

They are pretty cruddy models but paint up rather well (and are easy to paint - I painted about 200 in 10 hours)

 Azazelx wrote:

Why not use (most of) your WHFB (and compatable) models when you play KoW, and "use" (keep in mind?) the WHFB fluff when playing the KoW ruleset? Proxy in big uglies as is considered reasonable by the equivalent army lists.

I've done a 180 since then. I finally got my hands on the Warhammer rulebook, and was just overwhelmed with how clunky these rules are. I tried to get into it, but seriously man, CBF with that.

Even the Warhammer fluff turned out to be a dud. I'm more into the broader concepts of the factions than the actual details, and sure as hell its no stretch to imagine my KoW Orcs as having the same general mindset as the ones in fantasy.

However, I'm waiting to get my hands on the Mantic fluff book... I have this horrible feeling that their Orcs will turn out like Warcraft Orcs, with that whole herpy derpy green samurai warrior race thing. Yuck.

 Cruentus wrote:
Is KOW the Mantic game where one player takes his turn and rolls all the dice: attacks, saves, and morale (for the enemy) before passing the turn over to the other player? (Or do I have it confused with another game?).

If so, that would be the biggest obstacle to playing it. While WHFB shows its age and is clunky, I would prefer to be involved in the game 'turn' in some fashion. If I've got the wrong game, apologies.

"Call me old fashioned, but would you mind if I roll my own defense rolls?"

"Sure, I don't have a problem with that"

Problem solved. Why did I even have to explain this to someone? I often do the opposite - get the other guy to roll my saves in 40k - because its faster and in the end its just RNG

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Why not use (most of) your WHFB (and compatable) models when you play KoW, and "use" (keep in mind?) the WHFB fluff when playing the KoW ruleset? Proxy in big uglies as is considered reasonable by the equivalent army lists.

I've done a 180 since then. I finally got my hands on the Warhammer rulebook, and was just overwhelmed with how clunky these rules are. I tried to get into it, but seriously man, CBF with that.

Even the Warhammer fluff turned out to be a dud. I'm more into the broader concepts of the factions than the actual details, and sure as hell its no stretch to imagine my KoW Orcs as having the same general mindset as the ones in fantasy.

However, I'm waiting to get my hands on the Mantic fluff book... I have this horrible feeling that their Orcs will turn out like Warcraft Orcs, with that whole herpy derpy green samurai warrior race thing. Yuck.

The KoW orcs are "pure evil". They only enjoy themselves when destroying things, etc. They're even more one-dimensional than GW ones, IMO at least. I find WoW's orcs to be one of the more well-rounded orcish backgrounds around, actually.

The Mantic orcs go back to the roots of orcs in fantasy gaming (Like old D&D orcs). They're evil jerks who will burn down your house and enjoy a nice baby stew. They're marauders and raiders who see the destruction of orderly civilizations as a divine act of destruction. Nothing noble nor cheerful about them.

I find they're way better than GW's orcs just because they get rid of the sillyness. Even if it does make them more one dimensional, silly is a dimension we can do without.

The Mantic orc background is great.

They're closer to Tolkien orcs than anything else, with the twist that they have a serious mortality complex.

They were created by an insane and evil god that is now dead, for the purposes of warfare. Much like a lot of the races in the KoW background, they're the remnants of something greater that used to have a purpose but no longer does.
They have short, brutal lifespans, usually less than a decade (with 20 or so being the old age limit that most don't reach).

Part of their motivations are tied up in their culture of wanting to gain immortality through their verbal history - sagas and songs that their race has about mighty krudgers who did powerful things like tearing down a gleaming elf city and butchering the inhabitants. This is hugely important from a psychological perspective to them since their lives are so short, and death is visible on a daily basis to them... dwarfs living hundreds of years, and elves being immortal, and both living in luxury in warm cities must give them one hell of a chip on their shoulder.

The background also goes into details of how their leadership is formed, with a short section detailing the pros and cons of infanticide carried out by a krudger on his own clan.

They're not mindless berserkers or in any way stupid though, they will hang back and use catapults in a siege rather than mindlessly charging in to be slaughtered. Of course, they'll steal or trade for the catapults first.

Imagine being the armourer who sold them catapults and seige weapons and then they turn around and use them on your city. LOL.

Is there any information about their life cycle? They have infants, apparently, but how quickly do they mature? Something like deer or elk get pretty big and mature at three years or so. If their brains are encoded by their dead god with what they need to go to war (and the drive to make a few babies during the party afterwards) then they could be very, very dangerous. Imagine deer overpopulations, but evil deer that want to kill you and everyone you know.

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Why not use (most of) your WHFB (and compatable) models when you play KoW, and "use" (keep in mind?) the WHFB fluff when playing the KoW ruleset? Proxy in big uglies as is considered reasonable by the equivalent army lists.

I've done a 180 since then. I finally got my hands on the Warhammer rulebook, and was just overwhelmed with how clunky these rules are. I tried to get into it, but seriously man, CBF with that.

Even the Warhammer fluff turned out to be a dud. I'm more into the broader concepts of the factions than the actual details, and sure as hell its no stretch to imagine my KoW Orcs as having the same general mindset as the ones in fantasy.

However, I'm waiting to get my hands on the Mantic fluff book... I have this horrible feeling that their Orcs will turn out like Warcraft Orcs, with that whole herpy derpy green samurai warrior race thing. Yuck.

Well, the Mantic Orcs aren't as silly as GW orcs, at the least.

Rough, tough, and socially unacceptable.

They were designed by a mad god to be shock troops - not valuing life, not even their own.

Short lived, always hungry, always angry.... But with brains.

Don't think 'Samurai' - think 'Mongol'. The kinds of folks that build pyramids of skulls to spread fear in the lands that they conquer.

The Auld Grump

 frozenwastes wrote:
Imagine being the armourer who sold them catapults and seige weapons and then they turn around and use them on your city. LOL.

Is there any information about their life cycle? They have infants, apparently, but how quickly do they mature?

"Orcs breed quickly, and have spread like a disease"

Basically, they either grow up fast or die fast.

And even then, they still might end up dead; there's a piece which mentions how some krudgers often kill strong-looking infants who look like they could grow up to challenge them for leadership of the tribe... this lets the krudger live a little longer since without strong competition it will take longer for someone to challenge and kill him as he gets older.

Other krudgers opt not to kill the tough-looking infants, because they know this will weaken their tribe and make it less likely for it to achieve glory in battle.

So yeah, infant mortality is huge, lifespans are short and violent, but there's lots and lots and lots of them.

It's how orcs should be.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:

Why not use (most of) your WHFB (and compatable) models when you play KoW, and "use" (keep in mind?) the WHFB fluff when playing the KoW ruleset? Proxy in big uglies as is considered reasonable by the equivalent army lists.

I've done a 180 since then. I finally got my hands on the Warhammer rulebook, and was just overwhelmed with how clunky these rules are. I tried to get into it, but seriously man, CBF with that.

Even the Warhammer fluff turned out to be a dud. I'm more into the broader concepts of the factions than the actual details, and sure as hell its no stretch to imagine my KoW Orcs as having the same general mindset as the ones in fantasy.

However, I'm waiting to get my hands on the Mantic fluff book... I have this horrible feeling that their Orcs will turn out like Warcraft Orcs, with that whole herpy derpy green samurai warrior race thing. Yuck.

The KoW orcs are "pure evil". They only enjoy themselves when destroying things, etc. They're even more one-dimensional than GW ones, IMO at least. I find WoW's orcs to be one of the more well-rounded orcish backgrounds around, actually.

Yes I agree.. I kind of liked the WoW orcs as well in that they have more of an ambiguous personality. being evil 'just cause' is a bit 2D, and can only ever exist in a fantastical universe. ...

Oh wait..

At least the beauty of something as generic as orcs and these non-LotR-specific rulesets is that we can all have our "own" version of the backgrounds to the armies - not to mention doing the same across other forces.

If I decide that the background to my KoW orc army made up of GW figures is that they're one of Warchief Garrosh's True Horde armies crossing Azeroth killing anything that gets in their way, then it doesn't really hurt anyone else, after all.

I think the only way I'm going to get a game of KoW is to buy a 2 player starter set and play against my wife.

 Capt. Camping wrote:
Some people complain of KOW goblins, but from the pictures I see, the look good.

Agreed - I like the wide mouth and sharp teeth. The big bugle is a slight distraction, but they have a menacing Critters/Gremlins 80s sort of vibe.

 monders wrote:
I think the only way I'm going to get a game of KoW is to buy a 2 player starter set and play against my wife.

 Capt. Camping wrote:
Some people complain of KOW goblins, but from the pictures I see, the look good.

Agreed - I like the wide mouth and sharp teeth. The big bugle is a slight distraction, but they have a menacing Critters/Gremlins 80s sort of vibe.

Oh, the design aesthetic is fantastic (my second favorite goblin style behind Tre Manor/Red Box Games, and I have them mixed in one army), it's the molding issues for the plastics. If you're looking for high quality plastics, don't look at them. However, once speedpainted, they past the three-foot test quite nicely.

cheaper miniatures, much easier rules and imo more fun to play but harder to find people to play against.

 Goregut wrote:
cheaper miniatures, much easier rules and imo more fun to play but harder to find people to play against.

Strike that, reverse it. (The thread is about the advantages of WHFB over KoW.... Trust me, I can go on at length about the advantages of Kings of War over WHFB.)

Got stomped by my girlfriend a few days ago - it was glorious.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Got stomped by my girlfriend a few days ago - it was glorious.

The Auld Grump

TMI!

What you and the girlfriend get up to in private is your own business.. this is a forum about miniature wargaming!

(I keed I keed)

 porkuslime wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

Got stomped by my girlfriend a few days ago - it was glorious.

The Auld Grump

TMI!

What you and the girlfriend get up to in private is your own business.. this is a forum about miniature wargaming!

(I keed I keed)

Heh - you have no idea how tempted I was just now to do an entire battle report in a way that spreads innuendo.... How she came to grasp my flank while I failed to penetrate....

Her unleashing the badgers would have just made it weird!

The Auld Grump (Seriously - I failed with a flanking maneuver using Rangers, and she countered my Brock with her own, bringing her crossbows in to grasp my own flank. I was not expecting her to bring them into melee - but my flank was just too tempting.... )