Blood Angels: Death Company, worth it?

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**Martel732**

That's where the mathammer gets you. Both flakk missiles and DA fliers are shockingly bad at killing helldrakes. By the time you down them with these weapons, your force will be barbecued. Even the firepower of a Stormraven is only roughly 50/50 to kill one in one volley. That could be two turn of baleflaming even if you pushed all your models right and rolled average against the thing. And that's assuming there's not two more. For what they contribute, helldrakes are very cheap.

**Kain**

Martel732 wrote:
That's where the mathammer gets you. Both flakk missiles and DA fliers are shockingly bad at killing helldrakes. By the time you down them with these weapons, your force will be barbecued.

Who said anything about putting flakk missiles on the dreads?

**Martel732**

Kain wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
That's where the mathammer gets you. Both flakk missiles and DA fliers are shockingly bad at killing helldrakes. By the time you down them with these weapons, your force will be barbecued.

Who said anything about putting flakk missiles on the dreads?

So what weapon are you proposing to use? Do DA dreads have some magical weapon against helldrakes I don't know about?

**Kain**

Martel732 wrote:
Kain wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
That's where the mathammer gets you. Both flakk missiles and DA fliers are shockingly bad at killing helldrakes. By the time you down them with these weapons, your force will be barbecued.

Who said anything about putting flakk missiles on the dreads?

So what weapon are you proposing to use? Do DA dreads have some magical weapon against helldrakes I don't know about?

Mortis dreads can still get interceptor and skyfire if they stand still. So I just double up on lascannons.

**Martel732**

Ah, I don't know forgeworld that well. Many tournaments don't allow it. That certainly helps, but you can't count on Forgeworld support 100%. That's probably why forgeworld doesn't get much talk on tournament podcasts.

So if you rule out forgeworld, you can see where the DA are in a bit of a bind.

**Kain**

Well, my first time using my Dark Angels in a while was to ream a Blood Angels player once the new codex hit. The look on his face when the Deathwing Knights turned his deathstar into paste was priceless.

As was wiping out all his aircraft the moment they showed up. And Azrael showing Dante who was the better angel.

The first legion spits on the wannabe angels.

**Martel732**

Reaming BA is not exactly a huge accomplishment in 6th. Dante is terrible. The list was bad right there. He's 225 and for what?

**Kain**

Martel732 wrote:
Reaming BA is not exactly a huge accomplishment in 6th. Dante is terrible. The list was bad right there. He's 225 and for what?

Oh it was part of a not even trying to be canon campaign about the Dark Angels declaring the Blood Angels to be heretics and eradicating them after finding one of the Fallen was chilling on Baal.

So that was the climactic battle where Azrael decapitated Dante and started rooting around Baal, only for the Tyranids to arrive.

Really it was born out of a debate out of "Who is the better angel".

**Martel732**

Kain wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Reaming BA is not exactly a huge accomplishment in 6th. Dante is terrible. The list was bad right there. He's 225 and for what?

Oh it was part of a not even trying to be canon campaign about the Dark Angels declaring the Blood Angels to be heretics and eradicating them after finding one of the Fallen was chilling on Baal.

So that was the climactic battle where Azrael decapitated Dante and started rooting around Baal, only for the Tyranids to arrive.

Really it was born out of a debate out of "Who is the better angel".

that's easy: the one with the 6th edition codex

**Kain**

Martel732 wrote:
Kain wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
Reaming BA is not exactly a huge accomplishment in 6th. Dante is terrible. The list was bad right there. He's 225 and for what?

Oh it was part of a not even trying to be canon campaign about the Dark Angels declaring the Blood Angels to be heretics and eradicating them after finding one of the Fallen was chilling on Baal.

So that was the climactic battle where Azrael decapitated Dante and started rooting around Baal, only for the Tyranids to arrive.

Really it was born out of a debate out of "Who is the better angel".

that's easy: the one with the 6th edition codex

Fluffwise, I contended that as the 1st Legion the Dark Angels are and always will be more important than the pretty boy brigade. He then said that the Blood angels were better because the 1st legion were cowards who noped out of the Horus Heresy. At which point it was on like donkey kong.

**Martel732**

I have some BA builds that work decently as TAC lists, but they deviate far from fluffy lists. Consider that bikers are probably the best units in our codex now because of T5 jink, and FNP. Blood rodeo is fun, but they don't score and still have problems with helldrakes.

**Kain**

Martel732 wrote:
I have some BA builds that work decently as TAC lists, but they deviate far from fluffy lists. Consider that bikers are probably the best units in our codex now because of T5 jink, and FNP. Blood rodeo is fun, but they don't score and still have problems with helldrakes.

Shut up, we have robes and lions, you have pretty boys and fangs.

**soomemafia**

So... tell me how does this have anything to do with DC? The whole debate was about if BA are competitive or not (Martel I know what you going to say just hold your horses) and you end up telling that they suck against DA? Concidering that he HAD to take almost the most overpriced unit in the whole codex, I can't find any reason why that would be good measure of which is better army...

**evildrcheese**

I agree that DC have no play in tac lists, but I still plan on running them 'for fun' - but since getting stomped isn't especially fun this is also problematic. Anyway let's try and be semi-constructive here, since sticking them in a LR seems to be one way to mitigate some of their problems which LR is best to put them in?

D

**Kain**

evildrcheese wrote:
I agree that DC have no play in tac lists, but I still plan on running them 'for fun' - but since getting stomped isn't especially fun this is also problematic. Anyway let's try and be semi-constructive here, since sticking them in a LR seems to be one way to mitigate some of their problems which LR is best to put them in?

D

Crusader, always the crusader.

**Martel732**

In a way, the DC debate summarizes the entire BA codex. Everything works well until they start taking damage.

I think that both the LRC and Godhammer are significantly better than the Redeemer. The Godhammer, I think has renewed utility in 6th as I find the lascannon to be a very valuable weapon.

The *primary* problem with DC in a land raider, and yes I have a list that does this, is that you are investing around 500 pts to gurantee an assault on some target. If there is no juicy enough target, you end up way overkilling some squad in a single turn and then get shot off the table on the next player turn.

The opponent can afford to make sure the DC is shot off the table, because you have 500 pts wrapped up in this scheme. In a TAC environment, I have no idea how to prevent this.

I'm always trying to be constructive, but I'm always trying to be honest about the situation as well.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

soomemafia wrote:
So... tell me how does this have anything to do with DC? The whole debate was about if BA are competitive or not (Martel I know what you going to say just hold your horses) and you end up telling that they suck against DA? Concidering that he HAD to take almost the most overpriced unit in the whole codex, I can't find any reason why that would be good measure of which is better army...

The DA are a much better list right now, but they are updated for 6th edition, so that's not upsetting me at all. If the BA get an update and still are sub-par, then I'll worry.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
In a way, the DC debate summarizes the entire BA codex. Everything works well until they start taking damage.

I think that both the LRC and Godhammer are significantly better than the Redeemer. The Godhammer, I think has renewed utility in 6th as I find the lascannon to be a very valuable weapon.

The *primary* problem with DC in a land raider, and yes I have a list that does this, is that you are investing around 500 pts to gurantee an assault on some target. If there is no juicy enough target, you end up way overkilling some squad in a single turn and then get shot off the table on the next player turn.

The opponent can afford to make sure the DC is shot off the table, because you have 500 pts wrapped up in this scheme. In a TAC environment, I have no idea how to prevent this.

I'm always trying to be constructive, but I'm always trying to be honest about the situation as well.

Some people preach drop pod, but I've seen and had this go horribly wrong. Yes, the investment is less, but often you'll just get some bolter fire out of the deal. And guys that don't score. I'd rank it right below the Land RAider options due to cost. The jump packs are just out of the question. It's embarrassing how much those cost.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

soomemafia wrote:
So... tell me how does this have anything to do with DC? The whole debate was about if BA are competitive or not (Martel I know what you going to say just hold your horses) and you end up telling that they suck against DA? Concidering that he HAD to take almost the most overpriced unit in the whole codex, I can't find any reason why that would be good measure of which is better army...

The DA are a much better list right now, but they are updated for 6th edition, so that's not upsetting me at all. If the BA get an update and still are sub-par, then I'll worry.

**Kain**

No it's because Jonson is better than Sanguinus. Admit it.

**Martel732**

No other primarch has a better story than Sanguinius.

**soomemafia**

Martel732 wrote:
In a way, the DC debate summarizes the entire BA codex. Everything works well until they start taking damage.

Well said

An even tough we disagree in some things, I respect the fact that you can also be critic about your own army (that's an ability I lack for some reason)

About Land Raiders: I've always liked Redeemer. Not maybe the best but since your point is anyway to get close the enemy with this, that S6 AP3 can be real pain in the *ss for marines.
On the other hand, it might be difficult to get close if the enemy decides to focus on the tank. So long-range weaponry isn't bad. But taking 500p in one unit means that if the enemy has some serious AT-weaponry (or luck) you'll lose the game (has happened to me) but if he doesn't, it's a christmas for you when you can move from target to target and flame enemies (has also happened to me).
Overall, I'll only use LR to transport Termies

**Kain**

Martel732 wrote:
No other primarch has a better story than Sanguinius.

Your primarch is dead. Ours is just chilling in the rock.

He'll be out...

Aaaaaaaannnyyy day now.

**Martel732**

The Redeemer can pay off huge, no doubt. But it has to get within melta and meltabomb range to do so. Just not very TAC, imo. However, if your local meta is devoid of melta and lascannons in general, it might be a better bet.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kain wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
No other primarch has a better story than Sanguinius.

Your primarch is dead. Ours is just chilling in the rock.

He'll be out...

Aaaaaaaannnyyy day now.

Well. Yeah. That's why it s a good story.

**soomemafia**

Kain wrote:
No it's because Jonson is better than Sanguinus. Admit it.

As much as I'd want to argue about this, I'll have to tell again that this has nothing to do with the game itself. I'm sure you'll find another forum/thread where to talk about this.