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I mean, Joey isn't particularly nice looking, but she isn't fat or dog rough

I don't think you understand what objectifying is, because I didn't objectify women

 AesSedai wrote:
Notprop, I'll concede that attractiveness may be relevant in some visual contexts. That's a good point.

Mattrym's post was utterly disrespectful. Cool, you think objectifying women is light-hearted humour. Don't debase yourself, I know you know better. You mention that our hobby is mostly male and yet, you seem to ignore the value of a young women actively promoting the hobby in visual media. The WD staff member cluster-feth was more of the same.

Overall, I can't agree with you. You think I should lighten up and I think you should wise up. The world is full of people making objectifying remarks. It's demoralizing. Most misogyny is institutional and unintentional, but when some dude starts up with "well at least she ain't fat or a dog" maybe it's just meant as a compliment and we should move on tralalalala.

Ah so close!

I don't think anyone least of all me was objectifying women and I certainly do not ignore or undervalue the value of female gamers. So I will not accept that inference though to be fair did edit my post as soon as I hit submit. If nothing else the rates of antiperspirant use would sky rocket if there was at least one female in every gaming group!

You make a good point regarding institutionalised misogyny and I do not disagree with it, however I think there is a cultural thing going on here in approach and language which we Brits may be less sensitive to and while Matty's post may not have been in parlour language but it was harmless enough and was addressing the first point which you agreed with.

mattyrm wrote:
I mean, Joey isn't particularly nice looking, but she isn't fat or dog rough

mattyrm wrote:
I don't think you understand what objectifying is, because I didn't objectify women

Ouze wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
then you can call her superstar, till then, she's a seemingly nice person with some youtube videos that, for me, lack decent content.

Well, while I more or less agree with everything you said, I will point out that being a "wargaming superstar" isn't like a super high bar, right? I mean, this is a pretty niche community. We only have like, 2 dozen superstars, period.

I'm also into fishkeeping, rift lake cichlids are my speciality. There are names in that hobby, Ad Konings, Dr Paul Loiselle, Mary Bailey etc that I would consider the superstars of that tiny niche hobby, outside of it they really aren't going to be getting stopped in the supermarket but in it, they are listened to as experts and held aloft as celebrities.

cerbrus2 wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I did try to get back into watching her youtube videos, with her trip to adepticon, which was done over 3 videos. I was fairly annoyed at it consisting of her basically socializing and talking about doing girly stuff, going out to dinner and learning the rudiments of warmahordes with wargamergirl (who is actually someone who's videos I entirely enjoy, because she's about the games and is about a well constructed and presented video rather than rambling about being a girl and isn't it interesting that I'm a girl and did I mention I'm a girl in this male hobby!).

If I was one of the sponsors/kickstarter investors who'd paid for that trip to adepticon and the equipment to film it, I'd have been pissed at Joey, because there was just no bloody content.

Where was the 'what lists are doing well at 40k'?

Where was the views in the gaming halls?

Where were the rows and rows of amazingly painted minis.

Even going to possibly the largest event of it's kind on the planet, joeyberry still managed to make several long videos of just her talking into the screen with little to no content. It was a big waste of opportunity and felt more like a vehicle for self promotion than a report or documentary.

And mate, seriously, she isn't a superstar. I know it's exciting to meet a girl who wargames, but that sort of comment and the fawning comments I've read on her YouTube make me fething cringe, it's creepy and the perfect example of positive discrimination that belies the quiet sexism. If she wants to wargame, welcome her as an equal and friend, if she gets good enough to talk with authority on the games, listen and appreciate what she's saying and when she's writing the books, sculpting the minis or painting like Jen Haley, then you can call her superstar, till then, she's a seemingly nice person with some youtube videos that, for me, lack decent content.

WOW, Superstar is a saying I use for someone that has done me a good deed, not the fact i think she deserves a gold star in Hollywood. With Joey Posting the interview for me on here page this then lead to the wargaming consortium posting it as well. And then Chung also posted it on his private page, causing my New Blog to get 978 hits in 2 hours. I approached Joey for an interview as she is approachable. And down to earth as well. I would of asked the guys from Miniwargaming Shaun from BTP or even Chung him self, if i thought that they might be the tiniest bit interested, or that they could be approached at all.

And the Sexual discrimination in here is beyond belief and is the exact reason why my GF wont step foot in a hobby shop with me, as most of the guys in there start fapping at the mere site of a women in the flesh, as most of time the only women they get to touch come in the blow up kind or in Blister packs. Joeys vids provide light humor. I don't see any of you operating a succesfull youtube channel? Or asked to work on the new ROME II game?

If you don't like her videos that's fine we all have opinions, on what we like and do not like. But don't judge her because she is not the typical Neck bearded, Basement dweller.

So, your counter to stereotyping was to stereotype, well done, where's a charlie brown gif when I need one... I actually thought my post, the one you decided to quote, was not sexist but just held my personal criticisms of her videos. I do think there are comments in this thread that do prove we still, as a hobby, have issues dealing with it becoming a mixed gender pursuit.

My wife owns her own tyranid army, paints and is learning to play, I've seen the sexism at work and I'll thank you to not attempt to label my post as such.

I'm sorry if I got your use of 'superstar' wrong, I used it according to it's common meaning, not your personal version of it, from other's responses, they similarly misunderstood that you were just saying she was a nice person, rather than a celebrity in the hobby. I'm quite sure, by the way, that she's a lovely person, I don't detect an inch of malice or gakky behavior from her videos, I just said they lacked content for me, I am a gamer of 25 years (which I think is longer than Joey's been alive) so perhaps I want far more than she as a learning has to offer from a video, but my wife, who is also a starter, has also watched her videos and said much the same, that she didn't learn anything from them.

I watched the adepticon videos with a good deal of interest because it's been something I've wanted to go to for years and I was also interested in how she would find the wargaming scene over here as opposed to the UK, myself being an export from those sainted isles. I was disappointed.

 AesSedai wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
I mean, Joey isn't particularly nice looking, but she isn't fat or dog rough

mattyrm wrote:
I don't think you understand what objectifying is, because I didn't objectify women

Thats not objectifying women, thats objectifying war gamers in accordance with the well worn stereotype that we are all fat ugly pasty individuals who don't go outside very often.

If only women could be fat or dog rough, then I would be objectifying women.

But we have agreed to disagree, and we have established that you don't think I am funny, so instead of dragging this OT, or falling out, lets just drop it eh?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've just watched one of her videos reference MGS comment about some of the comments on her youtube videos being "cringe worthy" and well..... I am ashamed to have a (somewhat pathetic) penis.

"I can't concentrate on the video, your eyes are so beautiful" was my personal favorite.

"I can't concentrate on the video, your eyes are so beautiful"

Sorry, that was me

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Ouze wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
then you can call her superstar, till then, she's a seemingly nice person with some youtube videos that, for me, lack decent content.

Well, while I more or less agree with everything you said, I will point out that being a "wargaming superstar" isn't like a super high bar, right? I mean, this is a pretty niche community. We only have like, 2 dozen superstars, period.

I'm also into fishkeeping, rift lake cichlids are my speciality. There are names in that hobby, Ad Konings, Dr Paul Loiselle, Mary Bailey etc that I would consider the superstars of that tiny niche hobby, outside of it they really aren't going to be getting stopped in the supermarket but in it, they are listened to as experts and held aloft as celebrities.

cerbrus2 wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I did try to get back into watching her youtube videos, with her trip to adepticon, which was done over 3 videos. I was fairly annoyed at it consisting of her basically socializing and talking about doing girly stuff, going out to dinner and learning the rudiments of warmahordes with wargamergirl (who is actually someone who's videos I entirely enjoy, because she's about the games and is about a well constructed and presented video rather than rambling about being a girl and isn't it interesting that I'm a girl and did I mention I'm a girl in this male hobby!).

If I was one of the sponsors/kickstarter investors who'd paid for that trip to adepticon and the equipment to film it, I'd have been pissed at Joey, because there was just no bloody content.

Where was the 'what lists are doing well at 40k'?

Where was the views in the gaming halls?

Where were the rows and rows of amazingly painted minis.

Even going to possibly the largest event of it's kind on the planet, joeyberry still managed to make several long videos of just her talking into the screen with little to no content. It was a big waste of opportunity and felt more like a vehicle for self promotion than a report or documentary.

And mate, seriously, she isn't a superstar. I know it's exciting to meet a girl who wargames, but that sort of comment and the fawning comments I've read on her YouTube make me fething cringe, it's creepy and the perfect example of positive discrimination that belies the quiet sexism. If she wants to wargame, welcome her as an equal and friend, if she gets good enough to talk with authority on the games, listen and appreciate what she's saying and when she's writing the books, sculpting the minis or painting like Jen Haley, then you can call her superstar, till then, she's a seemingly nice person with some youtube videos that, for me, lack decent content.

WOW, Superstar is a saying I use for someone that has done me a good deed, not the fact i think she deserves a gold star in Hollywood. With Joey Posting the interview for me on here page this then lead to the wargaming consortium posting it as well. And then Chung also posted it on his private page, causing my New Blog to get 978 hits in 2 hours. I approached Joey for an interview as she is approachable. And down to earth as well. I would of asked the guys from Miniwargaming Shaun from BTP or even Chung him self, if i thought that they might be the tiniest bit interested, or that they could be approached at all.

And the Sexual discrimination in here is beyond belief and is the exact reason why my GF wont step foot in a hobby shop with me, as most of the guys in there start fapping at the mere site of a women in the flesh, as most of time the only women they get to touch come in the blow up kind or in Blister packs. Joeys vids provide light humor. I don't see any of you operating a succesfull youtube channel? Or asked to work on the new ROME II game?

If you don't like her videos that's fine we all have opinions, on what we like and do not like. But don't judge her because she is not the typical Neck bearded, Basement dweller.

So, your counter to stereotyping was to stereotype, well done, where's a charlie brown gif when I need one... I actually thought my post, the one you decided to quote, was not sexist but just held my personal criticisms of her videos. I do think there are comments in this thread that do prove we still, as a hobby, have issues dealing with it becoming a mixed gender pursuit.

My wife owns her own tyranid army, paints and is learning to play, I've seen the sexism at work and I'll thank you to not attempt to label my post as such.

I'm sorry if I got your use of 'superstar' wrong, I used it according to it's common meaning, not your personal version of it, from other's responses, they similarly misunderstood that you were just saying she was a nice person, rather than a celebrity in the hobby. I'm quite sure, by the way, that she's a lovely person, I don't detect an inch of malice or gakky behavior from her videos, I just said they lacked content for me, I am a gamer of 25 years (which I think is longer than Joey's been alive) so perhaps I want far more than she as a learning has to offer from a video, but my wife, who is also a starter, has also watched her videos and said much the same, that she didn't learn anything from them.

I watched the adepticon videos with a good deal of interest because it's been something I've wanted to go to for years and I was also interested in how she would find the wargaming scene over here as opposed to the UK, myself being an export from those sainted isles. I was disappointed.

For starters sorry about only quoting your post I meant to quote your post only to refer to my usage of "superstar". Im not if people watch the videos for Learning too be fair. ( granted after some of these comments im kinda worried at just why people do watch the videos) But for me they are Light humor hit at wargamming in general. I did actually forget to mention about wargamergirl who you mentioned, Who, i have to say produces some stunning models, And I often read her blog. Her Tau crisis suits she did recently where amazing. But some of the comments I have seen on her blog are like most of the one on here objectifying her because she happens to easy on the eye. The thing that winds me up, ( and this is not directed to you) about people saying that if it wasn't for being a female she would have no veiwers because of a Lack of content. How many people tune in to Dave's vid's on Minwargamming only to be greeted by Dave covered in foam pie. we don't learn any thing from his Shrine of Chaos vid's. but it is light entertainment.

As the interview was short and sweet it's best we keep the thread likewise.