Ohio Police Setup Fake Drug Checkpoints to Fool Motorists

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**Kanluwen**

Kilkrazy wrote:
sourclams wrote:
Y'know I do find this interesting and clever. It appears to be effective and I imagine it also saves quite a lot of money.

It'll suffer diminishing returns, though. Do it enough and the most 'in the know' drug users/dealers will understand what's going on, although they'll continue to scoop up the 'stupid' crowd.

If they can do stuff like Bait Cars, makes sense that they can do stuff like this (if an actual law is violated, like illegal U-turn). I understand that last bit gets blurry, though.

It's probably effective at picking up some stoned students who get scared and make themselves an easy target. So it will be great for the police to up their arrest count easily.

Which is becoming more and more the only way police agencies can really justify continued funding and existence rather than privatization.

**timetowaste85**

Shrug, I don't see anything wrong with it. Then again, I have nothing to hide. Let em do real, fake or imaginary check points. It gets drugs and drunks off the road. Why not?

**Kanluwen**

timetowaste85 wrote:
Shrug, I don't see anything wrong with it. Then again, I have nothing to hide. Let em do real, fake or imaginary check points. It gets drugs and drunks off the road. Why not?

The only problem that I have with checkpoints is that those drunks that it gets off the road sometimes think they can run the checkpoints or end up starting accidents or getting involved in them during their attempts to flee the checkpoints.

**timetowaste85**

^that's fair, yeah. Ok, I can see that being an issue to these.

**Jihadin**

How about just confiscate the drugs and fine them heavily. Hit them where it hurts. The wallet/purse.

edit
If its a freaking shipment of drugs. Just confiscate it, fine the driver, and let him/her go.

**Doomsdave**

This is an all-too common occurrence near small towns in the US. If a town (like this one) is close to an interstate exit the city government sees it as a cash cow. There are many of these little towns near me (one in particular has a population of about 5000 and has a police force with an armored car and a fleet of brand new Dodge challenger interceptors). If you don't have a tax base you just have to target HWY motorists. This is the main problem I have with law enforcement in this country, they have become uniformed revenue agents with too much authority.

**Hordini**

Rented Tritium wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of the overall war on drugs it is probably completely ineffective and wasteful, not to mention it takes resources away from other crimes which arguably are more serious.

While I do agree with the overall sentiment, drugs continue to be an important factor that lead to other crimes.

Just like alcohol during prohibition.

Alcohol doesn't tend to cause people to break into houses and steal car batteries and copper wiring just to get some money for the next fix.

**rubiksnoob**

Hordini wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of the overall war on drugs it is probably completely ineffective and wasteful, not to mention it takes resources away from other crimes which arguably are more serious.

While I do agree with the overall sentiment, drugs continue to be an important factor that lead to other crimes.

Just like alcohol during prohibition.

Alcohol doesn't tend to cause people to break into houses and steal car batteries and copper wiring just to get some money for the next fix.

It's also cheap, legal, and widely available.

**d-usa**

Alfndrate wrote:
I'm not saying it is, though it could be construed as fraud in some cases ...

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Fraud wrote:Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements: (1) a false statement of a material fact,(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue, (3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim, (4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and (5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.

So the police present a sign that says Drug Checkpoint ahead when there isn't one (1). The police know that there isn't a drug checkpoint ahead (2). The police are using the sign to get people to act a certain way (3). People tend to believe signs put up by police (4). If the police pull you over and they find drugs you are receiving some sort of "injury" in the form of potential jail time (5).

Like I said, it's probably not, but it'd be interesting if someone could argue that it was Fraud on the part of the police

How many "radar enforced speed limit" signs are there that fall under almost the same scenario though:

The police present a sign that says "Speed Limit enforced by radar" sign when there is no enforcement by radar (1). The police know that there isn't a car enforcing ahead (2). The police are using the sign to get people to act a certain way (3). People tend to believe signs to put up by police (4) If they do pull you over and you are speeding down a different road you are receiving some sort of "injury" in the form of potential jail time (5).

**Frazzled**

Kanluwen wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
sourclams wrote:
Y'know I do find this interesting and clever. It appears to be effective and I imagine it also saves quite a lot of money.

It'll suffer diminishing returns, though. Do it enough and the most 'in the know' drug users/dealers will understand what's going on, although they'll continue to scoop up the 'stupid' crowd.

If they can do stuff like Bait Cars, makes sense that they can do stuff like this (if an actual law is violated, like illegal U-turn). I understand that last bit gets blurry, though.

It's probably effective at picking up some stoned students who get scared and make themselves an easy target. So it will be great for the police to up their arrest count easily.

Which is becoming more and more the only way police agencies can really justify continued funding and existence rather than privatization.

Oh Dear Sweet Baby Jebus, Kanluwen and I agree on semething. Someone saves da Childrins!

**PredaKhaine**

Why is this any worse than not knowing if a speed camera has film in?

Round our way, our local council is saving money by only putting film in half the speed cameras. No one knows which are working, so you can't speed through any of them.

**Ensis Ferrae**

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why is this any worse than not knowing if a speed camera has film in?

Round our way, our local council is saving money by only putting film in half the speed cameras. No one knows which are working, so you can't speed through any of them.

Aren't most of them being switched to digital anyway? That seemed to be the case when I was living in Germany, as if they were still film cameras, then they'd have to change stuff out every day, especially with how fast I could get a ticket in the mail.

**Kilkrazy**

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why is this any worse than not knowing if a speed camera has film in?

Round our way, our local council is saving money by only putting film in half the speed cameras. No one knows which are working, so you can't speed through any of them.

Because it is illegal to speed, while it isn't illegal to turn your car around if you come to a police checkpoint.

**Rented Tritium**

Hordini wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of the overall war on drugs it is probably completely ineffective and wasteful, not to mention it takes resources away from other crimes which arguably are more serious.

While I do agree with the overall sentiment, drugs continue to be an important factor that lead to other crimes.

Just like alcohol during prohibition.

Alcohol doesn't tend to cause people to break into houses and steal car batteries and copper wiring just to get some money for the next fix.

I don't think you're familiar with prohibition and the crime it created.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why is this any worse than not knowing if a speed camera has film in?

Because they're pulling people over on the basis that they turned around or stopped when they saw the sign, which IMO is not lawful. I have a right to drive wherever I want for whatever reasons I want. The fact that I didn't want to go through a checkpoint cannot constitute reasonable suspicion all by itself.

**PredaKhaine**

Kilkrazy wrote:
PredaKhaine wrote:
Why is this any worse than not knowing if a speed camera has film in?

Round our way, our local council is saving money by only putting film in half the speed cameras. No one knows which are working, so you can't speed through any of them.

Because it is illegal to speed, while it isn't illegal to turn your car around if you come to a police checkpoint.

Asked and answered. Thanks

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why is this any worse than not knowing if a speed camera has film in?

Because they're pulling people over on the basis that they turned around or stopped when they saw the sign, which IMO is not lawful. I have a right to drive wherever I want for whatever reasons I want. The fact that I didn't want to go through a checkpoint cannot constitute reasonable suspicion all by itself.

Fair enough

**Hordini**

rubiksnoob wrote:
Hordini wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of the overall war on drugs it is probably completely ineffective and wasteful, not to mention it takes resources away from other crimes which arguably are more serious.

While I do agree with the overall sentiment, drugs continue to be an important factor that lead to other crimes.

Just like alcohol during prohibition.

Alcohol doesn't tend to cause people to break into houses and steal car batteries and copper wiring just to get some money for the next fix.

It's also cheap, legal, and widely available.

Heroin is cheap and widely available. It's just not legal.

Rented Tritium wrote:
Hordini wrote:
Rented Tritium wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:

In terms of the overall war on drugs it is probably completely ineffective and wasteful, not to mention it takes resources away from other crimes which arguably are more serious.

While I do agree with the overall sentiment, drugs continue to be an important factor that lead to other crimes.

Just like alcohol during prohibition.

Alcohol doesn't tend to cause people to break into houses and steal car batteries and copper wiring just to get some money for the next fix.

I don't think you're familiar with prohibition and the crime it created.

You'd be wrong. Are you familiar with heroin addiction and the crime it creates? Do you think alcohol addiction comes anywhere close to addiction to a drug like heroin? The reasons alcohol prohibition caused crime and the type of crime it caused are not the same as those for a drug like heroin.

**Ahtman**

This whole thread makes me think of Super Troopers.

**Alfndrate**

For those asking if it's a small town... Mayfield isn't really a small town in the middle of nowhere, it's a suburb of Cleveland, a major metropolitan area. And it's a cash cow, they're not really impacting anything but their fines and arrest rates. Much like the dreaded "village" of Linndale... They have a mile and a half of highway that is theirs to patrol, which is larger than their whole village... and you best believe you're doing the speed limit when you travel through there, as they'll pull you over for doing 1 mph over.

**Ahtman**

Alfndrate wrote:
For those asking if it's a small town... Mayfield isn't really a small town in the middle of nowhere, it's a suburb of Cleveland, a major metropolitan area. And it's a cash cow, they're not really impacting anything but their fines and arrest rates. Much like the dreaded "village" of Linndale... They have a mile and a half of highway that is theirs to patrol, which is larger than their whole village... and you best believe you're doing the speed limit when you travel through there, as they'll pull you over for doing 1 mph over.

So you are saying they don't allow any shenanigans?

**Alfndrate**

Ahtman wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
For those asking if it's a small town... Mayfield isn't really a small town in the middle of nowhere, it's a suburb of Cleveland, a major metropolitan area. And it's a cash cow, they're not really impacting anything but their fines and arrest rates. Much like the dreaded "village" of Linndale... They have a mile and a half of highway that is theirs to patrol, which is larger than their whole village... and you best believe you're doing the speed limit when you travel through there, as they'll pull you over for doing 1 mph over.

So you are saying they don't allow any shenanigans?

I'm gonna pistol whip the next one of you that says shenanigans!

**Dreadclaw69**

Alfndrate wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
For those asking if it's a small town... Mayfield isn't really a small town in the middle of nowhere, it's a suburb of Cleveland, a major metropolitan area. And it's a cash cow, they're not really impacting anything but their fines and arrest rates. Much like the dreaded "village" of Linndale... They have a mile and a half of highway that is theirs to patrol, which is larger than their whole village... and you best believe you're doing the speed limit when you travel through there, as they'll pull you over for doing 1 mph over.

So you are saying they don't allow any shenanigans?

I'm gonna pistol whip the next one of you that says shenanigans!

You would do that over someone saying shenanigans?

**Alfndrate**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
Ahtman wrote:
Alfndrate wrote:
For those asking if it's a small town... Mayfield isn't really a small town in the middle of nowhere, it's a suburb of Cleveland, a major metropolitan area. And it's a cash cow, they're not really impacting anything but their fines and arrest rates. Much like the dreaded "village" of Linndale... They have a mile and a half of highway that is theirs to patrol, which is larger than their whole village... and you best believe you're doing the speed limit when you travel through there, as they'll pull you over for doing 1 mph over.

So you are saying they don't allow any shenanigans?

I'm gonna pistol whip the next one of you that says shenanigans!

You would do that over someone saying shenanigans?

Not sure if you got the reference

. It's from Super Troopers after a small scene where they say Shenanigans like 5 times in a minute.

**Frazzled**

Ahtman wrote:
This whole thread makes me think of Super Troopers.

Do you know why I pulled you over meow?

I need to meow see your license and meow.

**Dreadclaw69**

Alfndrate wrote:
Not sure if you got the reference . It's from Super Troopers after a small scene where they say Shenanigans like 5 times in a minute.

Evidently not

I'll be over here trying not to embarrass myself further

**Alfndrate**

Go watch it, I believe it's on Netflix

**Dreadclaw69**

I have Hulu. I seem to get caught up watching shows that don't get second seasons - Firefly and GCB

**Ouze**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Because it is illegal to speed, while it isn't illegal to turn your car around if you come to a police checkpoint.

While I personally agree with you, unfortunately there were 5 guys who did not and who think this is probably fine. Although I also agree with Polonius that this is a clear end-run around random drug searches to the point that while the arrests aren't tainted, the practice itself is clever in the way that judges don't like.

**Kilkrazy**

It could be argued about the details of these other cases. For example, whether this check point in a high crime area.

**Alfndrate**

Crime seems pretty low...

http://www.city-data.com/city/Mayfield-Heights-Ohio.html

Edit: Of course I have no idea what the drug crime statistics are from that link, still searching

**LoneLictor**

I have no problems with this tactic, but the War on Drugs itself bothers me.