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There I have to disagree. I can't blame people for using things that GW puts in the codices. If I see a CSM list, I expect helldrakes. I bend over and take my medicine with a smile, because its not my fault, and not my opponents fault. It's GWs fault.

My only complaint is that they cost LESS than a Forgefiend. Even then, I'm complaining about the Fiends pricing! But consider a 'Drake with Hades autocannon.

GW somehow thought that taking away one Cannon, making it a flyer, giving it Vector Strike, AND being able to get the Bale Flamer... meant it should be 5 points cheaper?

 jifel wrote:


GW somehow thought that taking away one Cannon, making it a flyer, giving it Vector Strike, AND being able to get the Bale Flamer... meant it should be 5 points cheaper?

seems legit ..

 kinratha wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
I don't think they're cheese. Without them the CSM dex really isn't that good. It gives the book the competitive punch it needs

I think oblits are better, Now I don't know the Chaos dex but I'll compare it to IG.
Helldrake = Vendetta
Guards is competitive without Vendettas same for chaos.

I would really love to see you playing against competitive army (and a good player) with your IG without vendettas. I really would. (Well, I would also love to see your battle report from a battle when you actually field vendettas against a competitive Tau or Eldar and win)

Back to the topic. Not everyone likes helldrakes. The model is in my opinions quite ugly. Not everyone plays competitive armies and you do not need helldrake to play friendly (just like vendetta).

What's wrong with fielding Vendettas against Tau or Eldar? It's not like the Vendetta has a poor hull point/cost ratio. Unlike some other fliers: Stormraven. The Vendetta is flying dreadnought with an extra weapon slot that carries guardsmen toting weapons of mass plasma carnage.

 Blackskull wrote:
the model is butt ugly

This^

I dunno man...Vanilla Forgefiend with the Twin Hades Autocannons is gonna give someone a -bad- bad day. 8 s8 shots even stand a fair chance at gunning down a damn Heldrake.

Hitting on 4s statistically only four of those will hit. Nowyou're statistically getting 2 glances. Forge fiends are over costed and bad

It's a lot of points for something that is fairly poor vs a lot of armies.

I've yet to see a triple drake list do well at a GT, despite the popularity of the list.

Bring two drakes and build the rest of the army to handle non-meqs, and whatever AA MEQs can bring.

Job done.

Alternativly, stop posting in a troll thread, guys.

How is this a troll thread?

Nobody_Holme wrote:
Alternativly, stop posting in a troll thread, guys.

Agreed, checking it out of my thread to keep track of now.

I never have and probably never will ever field a Helldrake. CSM lists do NOT need them to be competitive. My Tzeentch themed TAC CSM list has no flyers (except a Daemon Prince) and no dedicated anti-air. Yet with this army I have won five games and drawn another for every defeat.

The Helldrake is a crutch for the unimaginative. If I had a space marine for every time I've shot down a Helldrake with a bolt pistol I'd be well on my way to fielding a whole company. If you can't get rear shots on a flyer with a minimum movement range, you're doing something very wrong.

510 points is a big chunk of anyone's army. If he's used all those points on fast attack, he's going to be very, very low on troops. 5/6 games include objectives. If you kill all his troops, he can't score. If you kill all his other infantry, he can't contest. If I have just one troop model left on the board holding an objective and he only has three Helldrakes and some vehicles, then who wins?

If neither of us have troops left, then it comes down to secondaries. And in most cases, a CSM players is far more likely to score first blood than a player with 510pts of reserves.

As much as I'd love to have a FLYING DRAGON FROM THE DARK FLUFFY SPACES OF HELL!!!!!!! I'd much rather not have one due to the fluff of my list.

I play a Word Bearers/Death Guard army list, and old Mortarion would be turning in his daemon bed if he saw Death Guard using anything other than their feet, their bolters and their sword arms.