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DOOMONYOU wrote:
I think what the OP is getting at is that the AP of weapons should be on a scale

AP -/6/5 - 52%
AP 4 - 24 %
AP 3 - 12 %
AP 2 - 8 %
AP 1 - 4 %

just guessing at these percentages btw

But currently there are more amounts of AP 2 and 1 weaponry available, than Ap 3, that nullify the reason for taking Elites with 2+ armour.

Fluff-wise those percentages would make sense, but balance wise that would be ridiculous. 3+ armies would rarely have any armor pen issues.

While there are indeed a variety of AP3 type attacks, i think the OP means its easier to spam AP1/2 than it is AP3. How many armies have more than 1-2 guns shooting AP3, yet have 4+ with AP1/2? Its not even tactical reasons to have that few AP3, its codex limitations.
I only play orks and tau, as Orks the only ap3 we got is rokkits/kannons and as i mentioned before rokkits are kinda moot thanks to BS2, and kannons are single shots (but cheap, so still awesome). They usually have 6-9 if they take any at all, but thats because the way ork lists work with shooting (even grotz-based shooting) without the numbers it wont do anything. Now, Orks also lack Ap2 shooting since only the SAG and Zzap kannon has it, but feth Zzap kannons and SAG is more fun than tactically effective. However orks have ap2 melee out the ass and then some lol.
Tau can have Vespid or Ionheads shooting AP3 (i think Pathfinder ionrifle does it too but not 100% sure no codex handy) but Vespid are useless beyond useless, and Ionheads compete for broadsides/railheads so again we only have 1-2 of them if any. Meanwhile, almost the entire army thats not a FW/Gun drone shoots ap1/2 lol

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
AP3 specifically is one of the rarer AP's in the game. There's more AP1 weapons than AP3 weapons, the only AP's rarer than 3 are AP6 and AP"-". There is a very intentional gap between 3+ and 4+sv's and AP4 and AP3, particularly amongst anti-infantry heavy weapons (in order to make Space Marines look cooler) so much so that it usually just goes straight to AP2 instead.

Looking at every weapon in existence is pointless since many things are not balanced and many weapons are never taken. What matters is what's commonly fielded. And that means AP3 is very common due to the Heldrake and AP2 due to plasma. Seems like all armor saves are irrelevant nowadays.

Yes Heldrakes are AP3, no the are not in every army and no they don't make 3+sv's passe unless you're specifically facing a CSM list with multiple Heldrakes.

Plasma spam has been common since 3E and every edition since then, there's absolutely nothing new or novel about it. Hell, if anything, it's even less common than it was then, now that PG's are 15ppm and not 10 (or 5 like the IG blackbook list) and Starcannons aren't 3 shots. Even in 5E, when melta was "the thing" you still saw plasma (and it's not like you got armor saves against Melta either).

That said, specifically AP3 weapons (as opposed to AP4 or AP2) are still a relative rarity, and multi-shot AP3 weapons are almost unheard of.

Forgeworld Orks can spam tons of AP3 flame templates. I feel like a major dick using them though

 Brother SRM wrote:

badgermeister wrote:
grenadiers and stormtroopers have standard AP3 weapons.

I'd love to see more AP3 but its either super strong singular shots that negate armour saves or lots of flashlights. Sadly not a lot in the middle ground but does make IG a good choice against power armour

Just stormtroopers; veterans with carapace armor are still just using lasguns. Even then, they're S3 shots so they're not doing much damage anyway. I feel like there's a decent amount of AP3 with power swords and especially krak missiles, which are pretty prevalent. I play IG often so I don't feel like there's much of a shortage of AP3 weapons. Even then, The Heldrake, one of the star units of this edition, is rightly feared for its AP3 Torrent flamer.

I think he means the DKoK Grenadiers, who are Vets with Carapace and hotshots.

For IG there's Stormies/Grenadiers, Earthshaker variants, Battlecannon armed Leman Russ, Collossus Siege mortar, Krak Missiles, Hellstrike missiles, Chem Cannon and that's about it.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:

badgermeister wrote:
grenadiers and stormtroopers have standard AP3 weapons.

I'd love to see more AP3 but its either super strong singular shots that negate armour saves or lots of flashlights. Sadly not a lot in the middle ground but does make IG a good choice against power armour

Just stormtroopers; veterans with carapace armor are still just using lasguns. Even then, they're S3 shots so they're not doing much damage anyway. I feel like there's a decent amount of AP3 with power swords and especially krak missiles, which are pretty prevalent. I play IG often so I don't feel like there's much of a shortage of AP3 weapons. Even then, The Heldrake, one of the star units of this edition, is rightly feared for its AP3 Torrent flamer.

I think he means the DKoK Grenadiers, who are Vets with Carapace and hotshots.

For IG there's Stormies/Grenadiers, Earthshaker variants, Battlecannon armed Leman Russ, Collossus Siege mortar, Krak Missiles, Hellstrike missiles, Chem Cannon and that's about it.

Actually the Grenadiers are Stormies without the special ops rule, not vets (notice they don't get 3 specials either). They've always been Stormies, they just got put in troops in the AB list.

Stormies in the Siege list veterans in the AB is what I though.

Old price was stormtrooper levels sure, but now? Eh, I made the calculation a few days ago and they basically get their hotshot for free.

There's plenty of AP 3, pretty much every commonly used Strength 8 long-ranged weapon that isn't an Impaler Cannon or Necron weapon is AP 3, I know this because of the amount of times I hear "I wound your Tervigon/Hive Tyrant/Trygon on a 2+ and you don't get an armour save."

Also what's with the sudden influx of Marine players complaining about their 3+ saves? if you don't like it play Terminators and Scouts instead of whining about actually having to take cover saves against a portion of your opponent's army.

Isn't the new Whirlwind enough AP3 for one person?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
There's plenty of AP 3, pretty much every commonly used Strength 8 long-ranged weapon that isn't an Impaler Cannon or Necron weapon is AP 3, I know this because of the amount of times I hear "I wound your Tervigon/Hive Tyrant/Trygon on a 2+ and you don't get an armour save."

Also what's with the sudden influx of Marine players complaining about their 3+ saves? if you don't like it play Terminators and Scouts instead of whining about actually having to take cover saves against a portion of your opponent's army.

Necron S8 weapons are AP3 and better

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
There's plenty of AP 3, pretty much every commonly used Strength 8 long-ranged weapon that isn't an Impaler Cannon or Necron weapon is AP 3, I know this because of the amount of times I hear "I wound your Tervigon/Hive Tyrant/Trygon on a 2+ and you don't get an armour save."

Also what's with the sudden influx of Marine players complaining about their 3+ saves? if you don't like it play Terminators and Scouts instead of whining about actually having to take cover saves against a portion of your opponent's army.

Necron S8 weapons are AP3 and better

I thought they were generally AP 1/2 apart the Gauss one.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
There's plenty of AP 3, pretty much every commonly used Strength 8 long-ranged weapon that isn't an Impaler Cannon or Necron weapon is AP 3, I know this because of the amount of times I hear "I wound your Tervigon/Hive Tyrant/Trygon on a 2+ and you don't get an armour save."

Also what's with the sudden influx of Marine players complaining about their 3+ saves? if you don't like it play Terminators and Scouts instead of whining about actually having to take cover saves against a portion of your opponent's army.

Necron S8 weapons are AP3 and better

I thought they were generally AP 1/2 apart the Gauss one.

Particle Whip - AP3

Eldritch Lance - AP2

Heat Ray - AP1

Lightning attacks (either from imotek or stormtek) - AP5

Admittably, you'd probably see the lances more often.

He might mean the long range bit. Necron AP 3 is 24", 24", 12"

compared to guard which can get up to 240"

 Dakkamite wrote:
Forgeworld Orks can spam tons of AP3 flame templates. I feel like a major dick using them though

From what and which IA? If you don't mind me asking.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Tyranidcrusher wrote:
Bloodletter's Hellblades are ap3 MEQ killing machines

\
Is there any difference between that and a power sword?

Not really, but the whole squad of bloodletters has them.