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For those that enjoy obfuscation and semantics, the exact wording, "A model cannot move within I " of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase," (pg 10 BRB) can also literally mean that if my model falls within a one inch radius of an enemy model, it can not move unless to assault.

How about that...??? Reminds me of the old magic card, "Player loses next turn."

Purple Saturday wrote:
For those that enjoy obfuscation and semantics, the exact wording, "A model cannot move within I " of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase," (pg 10 BRB) can also literally mean that if my model falls within a one inch radius of an enemy model, it can not move unless to assault.

How about that...??? Reminds me of the old magic card, "Player loses next turn."

You might want to quote the whole thing.

"A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase. To move past, they must go around." (10)

This says nothing about models that start their movement phase within one inch of an enemy model.

If anyone can answer these two questions and give me page numbers, I would appreciate it.

1) what rule tells us that a vehicle that has been charged can move as normal?

2) What happens when a unit charges a vehicle and they Immobilize the vehicle, can they ever move away from that vehicle or do they still have to remain in base contact until the vehicle is destroyed?

 DeathReaper wrote:

Purple Saturday wrote:
For those that enjoy obfuscation and semantics, the exact wording, "A model cannot move within I " of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase," (pg 10 BRB) can also literally mean that if my model falls within a one inch radius of an enemy model, it can not move unless to assault.

How about that...??? Reminds me of the old magic card, "Player loses next turn."

You might want to quote the whole thing.

"A model cannot move within 1" of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase. To move past, they must go around." (10)

This says nothing about models that start their movement phase within one inch of an enemy model.

If anyone can answer these two questions and give me page numbers, I would appreciate it.

1) what rule tells us that a vehicle that has been charged can move as normal?

2) What happens when a unit charges a vehicle and they Immobilize the vehicle, can they ever move away from that vehicle or do they still have to remain in base contact until the vehicle is destroyed?

Well, I was just being silly, but depending on how you read that sentence my point was that that rule ONLY tells you what to do if a model starts within one inch of an enemy unit, and that is that it cannot move. The only thing it can do is assault. It does not even have to assault the closest unit. That second sentence does not change this.

If anyone can answer these two questions and give me page numbers, I would appreciate it.

1) what rule tells us that a vehicle that has been charged can move as normal?

2) What happens when a unit charges a vehicle and they Immobilize the vehicle, can they ever move away from that vehicle or do they still have to remain in base contact until the vehicle is destroyed?

Page 76, BRB. Top right of the page "The vehicle and the enemy remain where they are and are free to simply move away in future turns"

DOOMONYOU wrote:

If anyone can answer these two questions and give me page numbers, I would appreciate it.

1) what rule tells us that a vehicle that has been charged can move as normal?

2) What happens when a unit charges a vehicle and they Immobilize the vehicle, can they ever move away from that vehicle or do they still have to remain in base contact until the vehicle is destroyed?

Page 76, BRB. Top right of the page "The vehicle and the enemy remain where they are and are free to simply move away in future turns"

That does not give you the permission you think it gives. That gives general permission to move despite being in base contact (normally you cannot move at all). You still need specific permission to override the within 1" restriction.

Literally, it gives you permission to move while closer than 1".

No, that quote says you can not move to get within 1 inch of a model. It says nothing about starting there.

The second sentence gives us the context of the first. "to move past they must go around" tells us that they were further than 1 inch when they started moving

You're not reading it the right way. Within one inch, you cannot move. That can mean two things. I grant you the distinction is slight, but it is there. English is wonderfully elastic.

Here is an example of my (admittedly dubious, but nevertheless grammatically correct) interpretation:

Illic Nightspear can be deployed anywhere on the battlefield regardless of proximity to an enemy model. I deploy him 1/2 inch away from an enemy model. Now, he cannot move, because he is within 1 inch of an enemy model. He can still assault any viable target, which according to the exact wording of that rule could be any viable assault target. "A model cannot move within 1"..." can literally mean that if I am within a 1" radius of your model I cannot move.

"If a vehicle that has been assaulted (and survived) does not move in its successive Movement phase" (P. 76)

If you can not move if you are within 1 inch of an enemy model then why does this line even exist?

Purple Saturday wrote:
Within one inch, you cannot move.

This is not what that line says, It says you may not move within an inch. that means you can not approach closer than an inch.

Approach is different than within I thought you might point that out, so I re-quoted the rule. You don't have to rearrange the sentence to read it that way, because ENGLISH! I just did that for clarity to make my point clearer.

Purple Saturday wrote:
Approach is different than within I thought you might point that out, so I re-quoted the rule. You don't have to rearrange the sentence to read it that way, because ENGLISH! I just did that for clarity to make my point clearer.

Not really.

Move means: to change position

Within means: In or into the inner part

in the context of a sentence it means you can not approach closer than 1 inch.

Like I said way back, I'm only arguing semantics here for fun, but "approach" is a 100% different word than "within." Sardonic is 100% different than sarcastic even though they are 100% interchangeable... Because it's a different word.

If I start exchanging similar words willy-nilly all over the rule-set, I could probably build a game that would be unrecognizable.

And like I said, I don't think I'm interpreting this sentence as intended, but technically, it is a correct reading.

Yes the word Approach and the word Within are two different words, that have really similar meanings.

But lets forget approach for now.

"You can not move within 1 inch of an enemy model" means something different than 'You can not move if you are within one inch of an enemy model.'

I agree that's the way you'd usually write that But, you don't have to include "if you are" for the sentence to carry that meaning.

Actually you do, as "You can not move within 1 inch of an enemy model" means you can not move so that your base is within one inch of an enemy model. The sentence assumes you are starting further that 1 inch as noted by the second sentence that says "to move past they must go around"

 DeathReaper wrote:
Yes the word Approach and the word Within are two different words, that have really similar meanings.

But lets forget approach for now.

"You can not move within 1 inch of an enemy model" means something different than 'You can not move if you are within one inch of an enemy model.'

If you start .5" away from an enemy model and move (anywhere) did you move within 1" of an enemy model?
If you answer "No." I'd love an explanation as to how that's possible.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Yes the word Approach and the word Within are two different words, that have really similar meanings.

But lets forget approach for now.

"You can not move within 1 inch of an enemy model" means something different than 'You can not move if you are within one inch of an enemy model.'

If you start .5" away from an enemy model and move (anywhere) did you move within 1" of an enemy model?
If you answer "No." I'd love an explanation as to how that's possible.

No, because the sentence is clearly talking about starting further that one inch and you are not allowed to move to within one inch of an enemy as noted by the second sentence.

The second sentence gives us the context of the first. "to move past they must go around" tells us that they were further than 1 inch when they started moving.

The rules are silent about starting closer than 1 inch, you are given allowance to move up to 6 inches with the restriction that you can not move to get within 1 inch of an enemy model, and nothing about strating there, so you can move away as normal as there is no further restriction.

I disagree with your interpretation, even including the second sentence. It doesn't say what you think it says.

It carries multiple meanings because English is a horribly convoluted language and GW didn't clarify properly.

So the real rules question, is why the Tau player started with 500pts of models on foot in reserve, and why he couldn't kill anything of the enemy army with shooting. Even with the fast movement of the bikers its pretty difficult to string 15-20 bikes across the board with any sort of terrain in the way, let alone without the remaining Tau models shooting.

If the Tau player had a devilfish, he could move over the bikes or tank shock through the bikes to get onto the board.

rigeld2 wrote:
I disagree with your interpretation, even including the second sentence. It doesn't say what you think it says.

If you are within one inch you can not move within one inch, you are already there. No need to go around because you are already within one inch.

However in this instance the rules are not very well written. The sentence really could mean both readings as it is just not clear, so there really is no point debating this much further.

An FaQ is our best hope, but that will likely never come.

As for HIWPI: I would let my opponent move freely when he is within one inch of an enemy model. Units that assault, but do not destroy vehicles can, so there is no reason other units can not.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I disagree with your interpretation, even including the second sentence. It doesn't say what you think it says.

If you are within one inch you can not move within one inch, you are already there. No need to go around because you are already within one inch.

However in this instance the rules are not very well written. The sentence really could mean both readings as it is just not clear, so there really is no point debating this much further.

An FaQ is our best hope, but that will likely never come.

As for HIWPI: I would let my opponent move freely when he is within one inch of an enemy model. Units that assault, but do not destroy vehicles can, so there is no reason other units can not.

Your use of "within" doesn't hold up to me. It needs the word "to" (I.e."cannot move to within 1" of an enemy model").
Let's replace "1" of an enemy model" with "the house". If I say "you cannot move within the house", and you are already in the house, can you move? No. If I said "you cannot move to within the house", and you are already in the house, then you could move. Without the "to", you cannot.

Pretty sure they die. Saw it at a tourney one time....

Tactical_Genius wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I disagree with your interpretation, even including the second sentence. It doesn't say what you think it says.

If you are within one inch you can not move within one inch, you are already there. No need to go around because you are already within one inch.

However in this instance the rules are not very well written. The sentence really could mean both readings as it is just not clear, so there really is no point debating this much further.

An FaQ is our best hope, but that will likely never come.

As for HIWPI: I would let my opponent move freely when he is within one inch of an enemy model. Units that assault, but do not destroy vehicles can, so there is no reason other units can not.

Your use of "within" doesn't hold up to me. It needs the word "to" (I.e."cannot move to within 1" of an enemy model").
Let's replace "1" of an enemy model" with "the house". If I say "you cannot move within the house", and you are already in the house, can you move? No. If I said "you cannot move to within the house", and you are already in the house, then you could move. Without the "to", you cannot.

You can not substitute a measure of distance with a location.

That is like making the Kessel run in under 12 parsec's...

 DeathReaper wrote:
That is like making the Kessel run in under 12 parsec's...

Seeing as how part of the Kessel Run is near a cluster of black holes, it is possible that by utilising warp speed (and going way too close to the black holes) he shortened the distance to less than 12 parsecs.

But I digress, we are getting off topic.

miss-post, sorry.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Purple Saturday wrote:
For those that enjoy obfuscation and semantics, the exact wording, "A model cannot move within I " of an enemy model unless they are charging into close combat in the Assault phase," (pg 10 BRB) can also literally mean that if my model falls within a one inch radius of an enemy model, it can not move unless to assault.

How about that...??? Reminds me of the old magic card, "Player loses next turn."

While the sentence per general use of English could be translated that way, that would break several other aspects of the game. Better to use a interpretation that does not break the game which would be that you 'cannot move to within on inch'... which is a playable way of looking at it.

Please explain - what breaks?

rigeld2 wrote:
Please explain - what breaks?

perhaps broken was the wrong word....

Any time you find a model within on inch of an enemy unit it would be unable to move other than to charge per that interpretation. IE some or all of a tank shocked units models would be unable to move on their turn due to being within 1" of the enemy model. For that mater a vehicle while not locked in combat would be unable to move from base contact with the enemy unless its tank shocking and not all vehicles can do that and none of them can charge except walkers. How is a transport supposed to get out of base contact with an enemy unit if it's not able to move while it is within 1" of an enemy model?

Since vehicles have a specific allowance to move while surrounded...

rigeld2 wrote:
Since vehicles have a specific allowance to move while surrounded...

Are you referring to the rules regarding pivoting? That is not movement as is stated in that section.