Triple Wraith knight at 1850?

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**Zagman**

toocool61 wrote:
Everyone is making good points and I thank you for responding. While there are things out there to deal with the wraith knights? People seem to exclude the fact there is other units you might want to shoot at with those units. So is the verdict 1-2 are viable but three are just silly? And what would you guys take in the last heavy slot? I was thinking walkers with dual star cannons or mix star canon/ scatter laser

I think 1-2 are viable, especially in a Wave Serpent Army as it takes similar firepower to combat each. 3 is pretty much unecessary.

As to my 3rd heavy slot, I won't be taking anything, I'm planning on Allying Farsight Enclave and bringing O'Vesa and another Riptide!

If you are keeping it Eldar, are running 2 Wraithknights and Serpents, I'd choose a Fireprism just to over saturate targets for your opponents AT. Otherwise Walkers of many varieties are effective as well. Nightspinner could have its uses depending on needs. Eldar HS has many many good options.

**JGrand**

I think you guys are hitting it right on the head. There are a couple of armies who easily deal with high toughness, Eldar, Dark Eldar, possibly Necron, and possibly GK.

Eldar have Shuriken Weapons which are devastating. If they are fielding small squads for Wave Serpent span Wraithknights are actually tougher, but if they are running footdar or larger squads of base troops its not a tough matchup.

Eldar can deal with them. Then again, they are nice to have when other Eldar bring their own Knights. Also, once a Serpent pops its shield, the Wraithknight has an easy kill.

Dark Eldar have Poison, blasters, and lots of it. Though due to meta shifts they aren't nearly as prevalent than they were in 5th.

Yup. They are scary for the Knight. Then again, my Eldar list also has 5 Serpents, 8 Spiders, and 2 Shadow Weavers to go along with two Knights. If I go first, there should be alot less to deal with on the field.

Necron have Wraith Span and Flyer Spam, one has the tools to take Wraithknights, the other can ignore them. Mind Shackle Scarabs are also supremely effective.

True. MSS are bad. Wraiths aren't good. Knights are there to scare Anni Barges, take pot shots against flyers, and tie up Wraiths. Not ideal, but they certainly aren't useless here.

GK have Force Weapons. They have to rely on multiple sources of Hammerhand or Hammers to wound the Wraithknight, then Force Weapon Activation. Dreadknights are a hard counter, though they have their own difficulties facing Eldar. That being said, GK struggle to hurt Wraithknights outside of CC as even Psycannons struggle to wound them.

GK need either Hammers or a squad with attached characters. I barely see MEQ GK to begin with, so stay away from CC and take shots at those Pallies, vehicles, and Dredknights.

I think that many people who dislike the Wraithknight haven't seen it in action. I was initially underwhelmed, but once I used it a few times, I became a believer. Eldar, like many other Xenos, are an army of specialists. The Wraithknight is a generalist unit. You pay more in the context of the list, but it nicely fills some of the holes that Serpent reliant Eldar has.

**gmaleron**

Have to say x3 Wraithknights is brutal, especially backed up by Wave Serpents packedwith Guardians with the basic TL Scatter Laser, Holo Fields and Shuriken Cannons. This takes care of all bases as a few Wave Serpents with TL Scatter Lasers cover anti-air very well. A friend of mine runs this list with the Autarch with Jetbike, Fusion Blaster, Mantle of the Laughing God, Shard of Anaris and Scorpion chainsword along with x4 Wave Serpents with Scatter Lasers, he is currently undefeated at my FLGS with this list @ tournaments at this point level.

**LValx**

Zagman wrote:
LValx wrote:
I wouldnt say Tau are bad vs WKs. Ive killed 2 in a turn before, without absurd luck. The Puretide chip can help a bunch depending on what it is attached to and SkyRays with marker support can quickly kill a WK. Riptides fear them, but keep in mind that 3 of them average less than 1 ID wound a turn and the Riptide can give himself a 3++ or GTG in area for 3+ cover.

Wraiths are tough for eldar as they are good vs the WKs and Serpents. 18 Wraiths + 2 Dlords would do a number on a player with 3 WKs.

I don't doubt you were able to do it, but here is my case as to why the Wraithknight is a tough nut to crack for the Tau.

Two SkyRays with the support of 12 Markerlight Hits and SMSs deals an average of 5.2 wounds and 3.5 if it has a scattershield or Toe save. So 14 Seeker Missiles/MarkerLights to drop one, 22 with Scattershield/Toe Save.

It takes 65 BS3 Monster Hunter Missiles to Down one or 109 BS3 shots without Monster Hunter. 216 BS3 Pulse Rifle/SMS Shots... 72/108 BS3 Plasma Shots... 24/36 BS3 Fusion Blaster shots... 43/54 Kroot Sniper Shots... Infinity Kroot Pulse Shots... 11/16 BS4 Hammerhead Shots

It takes a Riptide 12/18 Turns of shooting its IA to kill one. 7/10 Turns with Full Marker Light Support. Only 5/8 Turns with an Earth Caste HBC.

You don't kill Riptides with ID, you charge them and beat them in CC. And the ID pot shots on the way just in case you get lucky.

I'm not saying Tau can't kill a Wraithknight, but the sheer volume of fire that it takes makes it extremely unlikely. Most Tau lists <2000pts can't kill 1 in a single turn of firing everything at it, let alone 2. Meanwhile the Tau don't have a single CC threat that scares the Wraithknight barring a very lucky and bold Riptide. And even that is pretty slim. If a Tau list wants to beat a WK lists, they'd best target everything else.

Takes 7/11 rounds for a Riptide to kill a Wraithknight in CC while a Wraithknight kills the Riptide in 3/5 Rounds depending on FNP(Assuming no Failed Morale). 39% chance of failing Morale, 92% chance of being caught.

Most 1850 competitive Tau lists will be able to kill 1 WK a turn. A good number of players are taking 3 Broadsides + Commander with Puretide. Depending on Missile Drones and Markers that unit has a very good chance to put about 4W on a WK. 3 Riptides with Marker support can put a fair number of wounds on one too, possibly enough to kill one depending on the number of buffs they can get (a lot of folks are allying in Jetseers and the twin link buff is very good for HBC). It really depends on the Tau build, but I've seen a lot of 2 SkyRay, 3 Broadside + 3 Riptide lists. That will take out 1 WK a turn, possibly with shooting to spare. Sniper Kroot are also quite good vs the WK.

I don't think Tau are particularly good at killing them, I'd definitely say they are above average though. SM/Nids/SoB/IG all have a more difficult time with them, IMO. I'd only say DE/Eldar/Necrons can do it more easily than Tau and a good number of Tau players take Eldar as allies, so they can always gain access to some useful tools.

I think WKs are good, but they aren't particularly killy. Str.10 is nice, but 2 shots isn't great, especially when cover can be gained easily. And if you rush forward you are more likely to be hit by things like Plasma Rifles/Fusion Blasters, etc. So you can just run right at Tau. Kroot with Stubborn LD10 can also tarpit them and lots of Tau players take a whole lot of Kroot these days.