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I can't wait to see the price for a finished model, I'd definitely use that over the official centurions.

I have this odd feeling that everyone that decries 3rd party companies as 'price undercutters' hasn't actually purchased any 3rd party bits/models.

Most 3rd party proxies are NOT significantly cheaper and are often more expensive once international shipping is added in. Not to mention, bits actually require you to have already purchased the main GW models first.

I really don't see these being cheaper than GW's offering. But it is a helluva lot better. And I have to also agree that the only reason we have seen a prototype of this so fast is because of the HUGE negative outcry from the community on the Centurions. Eventually someone would have put an alternate mode out, but not in such a rush if it was more acceptable to the masses.

 SickSix wrote:
I have this odd feeling that everyone that decries 3rd party companies as 'price undercutters' hasn't actually purchased any 3rd party bits/models.

Most 3rd party proxies are NOT significantly cheaper and are often more expensive once international shipping is added in. Not to mention, bits actually require you to have already purchased the main GW models first.

s.

Agree, but when you need to import GW as well third party, why not go for the looks?

MajorWesJanson wrote:
This is why we don't get previews more than a few weeks out anymore.

It's not really working though is it? If the goal of the secrecy policy was to leave too little time for 3rd party designers to release alternative products, then the policy is a clear failure.

Yodhrin wrote:You don't beat competition through secrecy and legal shenanigans, you beat them by putting out a quality product and letting people know about it.

Yep. Quality product + marketing = sales.

As for Kanluwen's assertion that accessory manufacturers are all about competing on price, all I can say is that shows an ignorance of the current state of available products. Alternative models that are cheaper options than GW are few and farbetween and when you go into 3d printed ones like those offered through Shapeways, there's no chance you can compete with GW's injection moulded plastics on price.

 frozenwastes wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:
This is why we don't get previews more than a few weeks out anymore.

It's not really working though is it? If the goal of the secrecy policy was to leave too little time for 3rd party designers to release alternative products, then the policy is a clear failure.

Yodhrin wrote:You don't beat competition through secrecy and legal shenanigans, you beat them by putting out a quality product and letting people know about it.

Yep. Quality product + marketing = sales.

As for Kanluwen's assertion that accessory manufacturers are all about competing on price, all I can say is that shows an ignorance of the current state of available products. Alternative models that are cheaper options than GW are few and farbetween and when you go into 3d printed ones like those offered through Shapeways, there's no chance you can compete with GW's injection moulded plastics on price.

Actually I'm aware of the fact that most 3rd party options are on par with or more expensive than GW and that the options which are cheaper usually are subpar.

The problem is that does not keep people from suggesting it to individuals who are looking for bits/conversion fodder...and for those people to actually buy into the hype about these 3rd party options being cheaper because they're "not GW".

 SickSix wrote:

I really don't see these being cheaper than GW's offering. But it is a helluva lot better. And I have to also agree that the only reason we have seen a prototype of this so fast is because of the HUGE negative outcry from the community on the Centurions. Eventually someone would have put an alternate mode out, but not in such a rush if it was more acceptable to the masses.

I think I've mentioned it before.. but maybe we should be thankful for GW's shoddy work and price hikes, that have brought a lot more business to the little guys

Sooooo much better, will be keeping an eye on this

 Kanluwen wrote:

Actually I'm aware of the fact that most 3rd party options are on par with or more expensive than GW and that the options which are cheaper usually are subpar.

The problem is that does not keep people from suggesting it to individuals who are looking for bits/conversion fodder...and for those people to actually buy into the hype about these 3rd party options being cheaper because they're "not GW".

Then why don't you say this in your earlier posts? From here it looks like you said one thing, was shown it was ridiculous and are now claiming to have meant the exact opposite. Just own it, admit you were wrong with your earlier posts claiming "some 3rd party would have tried to do their own version and release it at a huge undercutting price compared to GW's 3 box set" and move on. Why the song and dance to always paint yourself in the best light?

Here are your previous posts preserved against editing:

Kanluwen wrote:
You missed his point.

Even if the Centurions had been the best models since <Insert Whatever You Think the Best Model Here>, some 3rd party would have tried to do their own version and release it at a huge undercutting price compared to GW's 3 box set.

As it stands now, the models have not been officially announced and this company already has a 3D render and is pimping it out on Dakka.
Whether you think the Centurions are bad or not, this is part of the reason why we do not get previews from GW until the week before a release.

Kanluwen wrote:
Why would they make not-Hunter/Stalkers or Sternguard?

As you yourself said, there is "an actual market" for not-Centurions. It will not simply be for "ones that don't look like arse", but it will be for ones which are not $54 for 3 Centurions either.
You are going to get the quality you can expect for the price--and all that is done is reinforcing the stupid idea that GW has of "Don't show anyone anything because all they do is complain before they see it in person".

Nothing you said there was about some common misconception that you're now trying to correct. You made the issue about price, but were wrong to do so. Just admit it and stop with this "what I really meant was the opposite!" nonsense. No one is buying it.

 SickSix wrote:
I have this odd feeling that everyone that decries 3rd party companies as 'price undercutters' hasn't actually purchased any 3rd party bits/models.

Most 3rd party proxies are NOT significantly cheaper and are often more expensive once international shipping is added in. Not to mention, bits actually require you to have already purchased the main GW models first.

Not always. Compare:

http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=60

with

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440267a&prodId=prod1090183

And:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kromlech-Orc-Juggernaut-Mecha-Armour-Squad-Orc-War-2-ork-/161079071179?pt=Games_US&hash=item25810f91cb

with

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440264a&prodId=prod1620119a x3

AND:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kromlech-Clanking-Behemoth-Orc-War-2-ork-post-apo-/161069782958?pt=Games_US&hash=item258081d7ae

with

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod630019a

However, being 3D printed, I have a feeling these probably will be more expensive. I think the main reason people would buy these is for the look.

There are definitely cases where GW stuff is more expensive than smaller maker alternatives. Especially when they are coming from a country where the average wage is a quarter of that of the UK. I noticed all of your examples are from manufacturers in Poland. It's very easy to compete on price when accepting a smaller margin and selling direct means you make good money for your location.

Either way, there will be alternative choices for the Centurions not because there will be cheaper choices, but because of the poor reception of GW's execution of them. Everyone knows what a cool exo-suit looks like from the end of Aliens, so it's just really disappointing that GW screwed up something so easy.

But why sell them through 3d printing though? That's so expensive. Wouldn't it be easier to make a prototype through 3d printing and then cast the model in plastic/resin/metal?

Absolutely, but Shapeways provides a convenient fulfillment system where the creator doesn't have to do that themselves. It's very similar to uploading a PDF to lulu so people can buy print on demand books. You don't have to stock a print run or any of that sort of thing.

Shapeways will manage the whole manufacturing process. No equipment to invest in.

Not to mention that the design considerations are extremely simple. If you can model it, they can print it, barring a few small limitations. That's the main reason this is up so fast - with Shapeways I can take a model from concept to production in as little time as it takes to put the design down and upload it (not shilling for Shapeways, but it IS extremely nice for doing niche, low quantity stuff like this). Whereas the design I put up as-is, molding in resin or plastic would probably result in a dozen different fiddly pieces and would actually be technically challenging to make.

Now for the good stuff, an updated design. This is nearly ready for printing. The model will come in several pieces: legs, torso, head, two arms, arm weapons, and the missile rack. The power armor dude will be included, already printed inside the exo suit. All weapons are magnet-ready (1/16" holes for magnets on arms, guns, etc). I'm going to get the weapon options ready tonight and order a proof.



Expected price is $26 for one model, $65 for a set of three. Weapon option will be your choice (all three armed the same), and further weapons will be available separately.

So slightly more expensive than the actual GW Centurions if you factor in typical online discounts. Is this the cost for frosted ultra detail, at least?

Looking forward to seeing the other weapons...

I'd suggest two things:

1. Leave the head removable. People can use this to help customize.

2. Make sure you creat the options for the hurricane bolters. I'd suggest making sure this is up in time for release as well as it's going to be used just as often based on points for the devastator centurions.

I also second that I hope this is also frosted ultra. Frosted basic doesn't take to primer well in my experience.

Sorry, this is the cost for Frosted Detail. Frosted Ultra would be about $45 for one and almost $100 for three. Prohibitively expensive, I know, but there's nothing I can do about it - cost scales with volume, and these are big models. The examples I order will be Frosted Detail as that's the material I'm recommending, so everyone will have a chance to see painted and unpainted pictures and judge the surface and detail quality. Frosted Detail should be plenty good for this design.

For those who are less concerned about surface finish, White Strong and Flexible will be cheap as chips and more robust. Around $15 for one and $40 for three. I'll be putting up an example in that material as well for comparison.

Edit: if there are any issues with primer/painting on Frosted Detail, I'll be sure to warn people. I actually have little experience with it myself as most of my designs are pretty small and well suited to Frosted Ultra.

If it comes with something lascannon/grav cannon like and shoulder grav rifles... I'll buy 3 (given a competitive price, of course). It might, however, avoid some legal problems if the PA guy inside is NOT included... as much as I would not prefer it that way... just my $.02

Can't you just make a prototype and then work together with the guys from Anvil or something?

I heard PDC Gaming is looking for designs as well.

CalgarsPimpHand - I have seen you for a few years now running your company through shapeways and using only their 3D printing to sell your miniatures. As I myself am getting my miniatures printed in 3D ( not through shapeways) and getting them casted having run through the costs. I am wondering why you haven't looked into at all getting just a masters print and then having it casted?

I know their is then extra costs to deal with and such, but it is truly much more affordable and you could greatly lowers your costs? not to talk about bis on a public forum ( feel free to pm me privately if you do not wish to discuss this on here) but I have to ask this, I am just interested as to why you seem to choose to stick with doing shape ways only 3D prints instead of getting a mold made and a few casts done?

anyhow just throwing my own 2 cents worth in.

best regards - Shawn.

Offering the designs via shapeways will only cost him time and effort

any attempt to cast and sell will require him running a mail order business (or finding a 3rd party to do it for him)

so it may not make sense in effort (or cash) required on his part..., even if it would potentially lead to lower prices for us

By the way, what kinda Frosted did you use for that pre-Heresy ship?

I'd love to see a team-up and this offered for sale by Anvil in his quality resin. Maybe contact him about it?

 prowla wrote:
Would like to remind you good gents, that Orks are still in need of a similar contrapshun for mega-armor nobs.. and now that you're designing a suit..

Orks can loot it!

Kit looks great.

 Nut's Chiropractor wrote:

 SickSix wrote:
I have this odd feeling that everyone that decries 3rd party companies as 'price undercutters' hasn't actually purchased any 3rd party bits/models.

Most 3rd party proxies are NOT significantly cheaper and are often more expensive once international shipping is added in. Not to mention, bits actually require you to have already purchased the main GW models first.

Not always.

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, I never said 'all' or 'every' or 'always', I said most

Compare:

http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=60

with

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440267a&prodId=prod1090183

And:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kromlech-Orc-Juggernaut-Mecha-Armour-Squad-Orc-War-2-ork-/161079071179?pt=Games_US&hash=item25810f91cb

with

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440264a&prodId=prod1620119a x3

AND:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kromlech-Clanking-Behemoth-Orc-War-2-ork-post-apo-/161069782958?pt=Games_US&hash=item258081d7ae

with

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440268a&prodId=prod630019a

However, being 3D printed, I have a feeling these probably will be more expensive. I think the main reason people would buy these is for the look.

And you managed to find 3 examples, good for you kiddo.

MajorWesJanson wrote:


This is why we don't get previews more than a few weeks out anymore.

That shouldn't matter what so ever. The main reason people will NOT buy your figures is if they suck.

It doesn't matter if your picts are released two days or two months before hand- if your figs are good, people will chose them over the competitors that show up later.

 Moopy wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:


This is why we don't get previews more than a few weeks out anymore.

That shouldn't matter what so ever. The main reason people will NOT buy your figures is if they suck.

It doesn't matter if your picts are released two days or two months before hand- if your figs are good, people will chose them over the competitors that show up later.

Moopy,

Exactly, IMHO. If it didn't suck badly in the first place...

 Malika2 wrote:
But why sell them through 3d printing though? That's so expensive. Wouldn't it be easier to make a prototype through 3d printing and then cast the model in plastic/resin/metal?

Ten Thousand Dollars Later.... you would have a mould for a product that you (according to this thread) could maybe sell for $20. The initial setup costs for plastic are huge. Resin on the other hand is comparatively less expensive... but even then its thousands of dollars and you are looking at having to buy the machine and operate it yourself.