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They are considered simultaneous in this game however and as such the rules allow the player to choose the sequential order of rules that happen to be simultaneous.

Moving in with outflank and the outflank roll are not simultaneous, they are the same thing. You need to roll as your models come on to figure out which side they come in on.

MarkyMark wrote:
It is clear that moving units on from reserve is movement.

Its movement that occurs before the Movement phase since you must move the units arriving from reserve onto the board before you may move any other units that are already on the board.

 Ghaz wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
It is clear that moving units on from reserve is movement.

Its movement that occurs before the Movement phase since you must move the units arriving from reserve onto the board before you may move any other units that are already on the board.

Yes, we are told that you must move reserves units before moving units already on the board, but nowhere in the rules, that I can see, does it state that this movement occurs before the movement phase.

Then perhaps you can quote for us where reserves move after the start of the Movement phase. You can't since the rules for the Movement phase only cover voluntary movement and reserves move before anything covered in those rules can move.

Start of the Movement Phase and Start of the Turn are two different terminologies pointing to the same spot on the time line. This is because there is nothing prior to the start of the movement phase, it is the very first phase that happens during a turn. This is further supported by the FAQ which highlights that the two actions, with the different terminologies, are happening 'simultaneous' to each other. If you think this is wrong, point me to the page and paragraph which highlights what this pre-movement phase is called, what actions take place in it and when we have permission to actually start movement.

The problem I have seen in this thread is the inaccurate use a time line. What a lot of people seem to be doing wrong is they are using logic and reason to address this timing issue. Logically, when looking at a time line each action will fill it's own slot and create a sequence of events. It is very clear what came first, what came after and what came last. Simply starting at the beginning you can follow the time line all the way through to completion, seeing exactly what order the events occurred in.

In the world of rules it is not just possible for two or more actions to fall on the same point in a time line but also for sequence of actions to fall into the same slot. Outflanking is a perfect example of this as the rules require you to roll a few dice before moving the models onto the table. If you do not roll the reserve test first you do not know if you have permission to remove those models from reserve. If you do not roll the outflanking roll you have no idea which side of the table to deploy from. This is a clear sequence of events that has to occur in the right order for the rule to function in any manor.

But that whole sequence still only fills one slot and other actions can still fill that very slot at the same time!

It is only when you start using rules other then those labeled 'start of the turn/movement' that you have actually moved down the timeline. Any action taken before that, including those with a sequence of events, all happened during the start of the movement phase. Even completing such an action does not move you down the time line or else it would be impossible to do more then a single start of the movement/phase action each turn. Until every action with such terminology has been resolved, you are still at the 'start of the movement phase.'