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 Peregrine wrote:


No they are not. No weapon is better than any other weapon at snap firing.

Which is meaningless because each HB hit is less likely to kill the target than, say, a lascannon hit. You can't just look at hits in isolation, you have to consider the final result. And when you're comparing the final results of two weapons what BS you shoot them at is irrelevant.

(And yes, the HB is better than the LC at killing guardsmen with no cover when snap firing, but only because it's also better than the LC when firing at BS 4, BS 10, and any other BS you want to shoot the two guns at.)

So let me get this straight, no weapon, no matter how many shots is made in one round of firing is better than any other in snapfire? Ummmmm no. Tell me how likely you'll get the end result in a lascannon that has a one in six chance of even hitting something compared to a say a Deffgun. More shots when snapfiring yields an end result that is far better than a lascannon. sure the lascannon is Str 9 Ap2, but it also at best on it's own kill off 1 single model. Where something like a heavy bolter has a much better chance of hitting, then wounding and could hit more than one model.

No single gun is made equal, and snapfiring proves this further. Some are better for certain jobs, but a single fire gun really should only be snapfiring as a last resort.

Now that Heavy Bolters are in the Sternguard Kit I hope that they are also able to use Sternguard Ammunition - hence, GWS has a "Deathwatch" package (the new Captain, 1 Sternguard, 1 Vanguard box and 1 Deathwatch upgrade kit) in the Armageddon list.

Maybe Sternguards are able to use the Special Issue Ammunition in every bolt weapon they can wield?

 dreamakuma wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:


No they are not. No weapon is better than any other weapon at snap firing.

Which is meaningless because each HB hit is less likely to kill the target than, say, a lascannon hit. You can't just look at hits in isolation, you have to consider the final result. And when you're comparing the final results of two weapons what BS you shoot them at is irrelevant.

(And yes, the HB is better than the LC at killing guardsmen with no cover when snap firing, but only because it's also better than the LC when firing at BS 4, BS 10, and any other BS you want to shoot the two guns at.)

So let me get this straight, no weapon, no matter how many shots is made in one round of firing is better than any other in snapfire? Ummmmm no. Tell me how likely you'll get the end result in a lascannon that has a one in six chance of even hitting something compared to a say a Deffgun. More shots when snapfiring yields an end result that is far better than a lascannon. sure the lascannon is Str 9 Ap2, but it also at best on it's own kill off 1 single model. Where something like a heavy bolter has a much better chance of hitting, then wounding and could hit more than one model.

No single gun is made equal, and snapfiring proves this further. Some are better for certain jobs, but a single fire gun really should only be snapfiring as a last resort.

I think the point he is making is that no gun is 'better at snap firing' the chance to hit with a heavy bolter compared to a lascannon at BS1 is the same as the chance to hit in comparison at BS4.

 shamikebab wrote:
[

I think the point he is making is that no gun is 'better at snap firing' the chance to hit with a heavy bolter compared to a lascannon at BS1 is the same as the chance to hit in comparison at BS4.

But a BS 4 Heavy 3 has a better chance to hit than a BS 4 Heavy 1. 3 shots vs 1 here to hit. The same rules apply on snap firing. Firing at a low BS you want as many shots as possible, not one Uber powerful round. At BS 1 you get a one in six chance to hit with a lascannon. With a heavy bolter you get three 1/6 chances to hit. Sure you after you get a hit with a lascannon you usually have a 5/6 chance of wounding on the average toughness. But you still gain more chances with the bolter. Unless for some odd reason a vehicle is out of range and you wanted to slog or possibly the dire need to skyfire, firing one shot isn't much good as firing three.

 Kanluwen wrote:
.
If you buy one of the new Sternguard kits, you're going to have a "new" pattern of Heavy Bolter.

Yes, if you look at the new sternguard sprues I'm pretty sure they come with one of each heavy weapon, and the way games workshop designs kits for new armies is meant to be so the kits are backward compatible with other kits, so you could use it on your Tac Squad (just at extra cost).

The Tac box hasn't come with a heavy bolter for nine years or so.

 dreamakuma wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
[

I think the point he is making is that no gun is 'better at snap firing' the chance to hit with a heavy bolter compared to a lascannon at BS1 is the same as the chance to hit in comparison at BS4.

But a BS 4 Heavy 3 has a better chance to hit than a BS 4 Heavy 1. 3 shots vs 1 here to hit. The same rules apply on snap firing. Firing at a low BS you want as many shots as possible, not one Uber powerful round. At BS 1 you get a one in six chance to hit with a lascannon. With a heavy bolter you get three 1/6 chances to hit. Sure you after you get a hit with a lascannon you usually have a 5/6 chance of wounding on the average toughness. But you still gain more chances with the bolter. Unless for some odd reason a vehicle is out of range and you wanted to slog or possibly the dire need to skyfire, firing one shot isn't much good as firing three.

Yes but the point is, a Heavy Bolter has a better chance at hitting when stationary as well, yet you don't see people just taking them over Lascannons. The reason you choose that weapon is for a different task, it's efficiency at that task changes at the same rate as the Heavy Bolter's does when snap firing.