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 IHateNids wrote:
Slightly off topic, but for someone beginning to Raise a chapter, would a Talon be a good addition to roughly 1000 points already, or is the money better off going into something else?

As with all C:SM questions, the answer is what do you have and what do you like? At some point, you need to have some AA in your army. There are a number of ways to get it. Either one of the flyers, an ADL or other fortification, or one of the new tanks. Or flack missiles I guess, not fond of them as an option. What slots in your FOC are free? An ADL w/ a quadgun is probably not going to conflict with anything you have. Most of the other options are going to be in your HS slot, but the talon is FA. Where do you have room? How many flyers are in your local meta? If you don't see a lot of them, you can put off getting your own.

Personally, I've been content with an ADL and a talon in armies of around 1,500 points. But nobody in my area really spams flyers (that I've played). The most I've seen in the air on the other side of the table is two. At the 1k point, I'd like to have at least one answer to flyers. YMMV.

Well, my current AA is a Raven, and what I have is (from memory)

Termie Librarian
Captain/Chap Master
40 PA bodies (inc Flamer, 4x Plasma, 2x Melta, Lascannon, Hvy Bolter)
1 Pod
Ironclad
Raven

Im not sure if I should get a talon, or something like a Predator

Actually using it like I did (post a while back sorry for the long wait) has been very good. The assault cannon and multimelta are more reliable (mathhammer at least), yes. But having the stand off range and the ablilty to maintain it, AND to threaten light infantry with frag missiles has been huge. My raven has never been shot down (so far anyways) and always gets its points back. However it suits my playstyle and army lists so YMMV if you try that config yourself.

Another question I have about the Stormraven is, how often do you take advantage of the transport capacity? Is it only worth throwing some cheap scouts into, or would it be worthwhile (in some cases) to pop an assault squad or some vanguard vets in there?

 Gideon999 wrote:
Actually using it like I did (post a while back sorry for the long wait) has been very good. The assault cannon and multimelta are more reliable (mathhammer at least), yes. But having the stand off range and the ablilty to maintain it, AND to threaten light infantry with frag missiles has been huge. My raven has never been shot down (so far anyways) and always gets its points back. However it suits my playstyle and army lists so YMMV if you try that config yourself.

This was my thinking as well.
Taking advantage of the range bonus seems like a good way to keep you safe and give you the ability to target high value targets easier. It is weaker against AV14 but that's what melta is for.

May I just ask: How in hell is range an issue on a flyer?

 IHateNids wrote:
May I just ask: How in hell is range an issue on a flyer?

For the fixed-front guns, you need to work hard for range to become an issue. For turret mounts, it can become an issue. Also, having a longer reach lets you hang back, out of range or LOS of threats.

I don't think it's a huge deal overall, but you never know when those situations are going to arise. And when they do, it's good to have them in your favor.

I don't see how being in a turret vs fixed makes any difference on the range.

Given the limitations on flyer movement, you can't really hang back with them. Unless you are in hover mode, and that's really just asking for trouble.

There have been times after my primary pass with my stormtallon, I have the option to stop short of the table edge and get a shot off, rather then fly off to reserves or go to hover. Would I be better off just flying off and returning next turn for a full attack run? Maybe. But some games one shot now is better then two next turn.

And when you are out of position, the 24" on the assault cannons is not the best.

I usually plan my Flyer movement a couple turns ahead. So I have at least an idea where its going to end up so I don't ever get stuck somewhere.

No need to start a new thread so thought I would ask it here:

Which of the two would you take for primarily an anti-aircraft role?

A. Storm Raven with TLLC, TLMM/TML

or

B. Storm Talon with TLLC and a Stalker

Only one FA slot is available, so no dual Talon setups. The Raven has the AP1/2 punch which makes all the difference when fighting Turkeys. The Talon and Stalker have more hull points and are separate, so take more to destroy. They also give more overall dakka. However the Raven has transport capacity for putting in a small unit of Scouts for last minute objective grabs.

If Forgeworld is available, you can take some Space Marine Sentry Turrets. Heavy Support Slot. T6 W2 3+ artillery with BS3 skyfire interceptor krak missiles that reroll hits on flyers and fast skimmers.

140 points for a full squad of 4.

If you're not open to the idea, my personal vote goes for the Stormraven. But I'm rather partial to the ugly thing.

My vote also goes to the Raven.

If one can down two turkeys over the course of 2 turns on fairly average rolls, Im inclined to say it will suffice for what you need.

Also, MM + TL LC. Never take the Cyclone in my opinion, its not worth it

In low points, there isn't much anti air, outside of Cron air or Anti air broadsides, and with the mathhammer on TML ST, It is a good addition for a list, and it can strafe very well.

I'd rather have two options over one, but I think both options could work.

Try running TL MM and TL Assault Cannon on the Stormraven. It give good anti-air punch and is still versatile vs ground targets.

I run it as TL MM, TL AC, & Huricane sponsons. I ind that numbert of bullets helps amazingly when firing at infantry (as in when theres nothing else left)

Why not TLMM & TLLC on the Raven? Concentrate on high S low AP shots?

I'm not sure. My worry about the TL AC on the top of the raven is that when your that high, 24" range is not very much.

I find the AC to be more useful overall.

It enables the raven to be multi-rolled, while still retaining anti-armour firepower. As the highest armour value that flies outside of apoc is 12, AC is an insta-pen. and 4 S6 Rending shots should help down infantry.

But I guess its just preference

Man, sorry I didn't reply back, I know it's been a minute, but thanks guys! Great information!

Is there ever a good argument to keep the TL Heavy Bolter on the Talon?

unless you want a dedicated hard to get at Anti Infantry platform, not really

 minigun762 wrote:
Is there ever a good argument to keep the TL Heavy Bolter on the Talon?

I don't know if there are any "good" arguments. If your primary tactic is to swing in behind someone and use the TLAsC turret for a rear armor shot, I could see skimping on the other weapon. If it's just going to be pointing off in a random direction, why pay for it? And by not spending points there, you can use them elsewhere. The HBs are twin linked. The only other TL'd option is the TLLC. So if you want to ensure hits on light targets, it's a plus.

But with strafing run, and being BS4 base, TLing is not such a big deal. So spending 15 points to gain +2S while loosing TL is well worth it.

I would never field them with the HBs. I had to think about it for a bit before I could even come up with any argument to do so. I'm very stingy with war gear and extras, and even I don't think twice about upgrading to the skyhammers. Wether it's worth it to go with the TML or the LCs, I can see arguments for, but you -really- need to love HBs to fly them on your talons.

That's about what I'd assumed, but I wanted to see if I had missed something important with the HB.

besides an instance of "Im on the wrong side for that ADL to work, please remove Fire Warrior squad" not really

how bout TL LC and TL HB for a set up?

Almost as good as lascannons and heavy bolters in the same devastator squad (I.e. don't do it). Even with potms.

Is the short range of the TLMM &TLAC on the Raven ever a concern?

Not that Ive found. Paired with Hurricanes it is a 24" 'ok this unit is almost dead now' at least Ive found that