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Any one have a link to this handbook?

Isn't this an incredibly old story? I was sure the Valve employee handbook was leaked at least 18 months ago. - I remember reading it! - Ah yup, the articles from April 2012.

 Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Who determines pay in such a structure?

The Wheel™

Just hope you don't bust a deal

 Frazzled wrote:
Who determines pay in such a structure?

Who needs to, when you basically print your own money and your company is based around happy employees being dramatically more productive rather than the cheapest employees you can find doing just enough to not be fired? A lot of these companies are extremely progressive, you aren't working hard for a raise or a promotion some day from your terrible job, you're working because you love what you do, if you don't, you didn't get hired.

 Grundz wrote:
Who needs to, when you basically print your own money and your company is based around happy employees being dramatically more productive rather than the cheapest employees you can find doing just enough to not be fired? A lot of these companies are extremely progressive, you aren't working hard for a raise or a promotion some day from your terrible job, you're working because you love what you do, if you don't, you didn't get hired.

And it all happens in the Marmalade Forest among the marshmallow unicorns, so it's even better.

Reading the BBC article, it seems that pay is determined collectively. The entire company basically votes on who they think are the smartest and most productive people, to establish a ranking, and pay levels are set according to that. Similarly, everyone has input into hiring and firing.

Seems like an interesting structure, and it clearly works for them.

[quote=Seaward 553980 6080476 7bae346b25e7e570a5d7c081f161c850.jpg
And it all happens in the Marmalade Forest among the marshmallow unicorns, so it's even better.

 xole wrote:
Maybe Valve has a hive mind, or a super computer overlord.

Yes. His name is Gaben.

He knows all and sees all.

Unless it's a multiple of 3.

Wait, Valve has 300 employees...Half Life 3 confirmed?

Only if 100 employees work on it.

 Seaward wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
Who needs to, when you basically print your own money and your company is based around happy employees being dramatically more productive rather than the cheapest employees you can find doing just enough to not be fired? A lot of these companies are extremely progressive, you aren't working hard for a raise or a promotion some day from your terrible job, you're working because you love what you do, if you don't, you didn't get hired.

And it all happens in the Marmalade Forest among the marshmallow unicorns, so it's even better.

Marshmallow unicorn brisket tastes awesome.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Yes. His name is Gaben.

He knows all and sees all.

Unless it's a multiple of 3.

Wait, Valve has 300 employees...Half Life 3 confirmed?

Well Valve are making 3 announcements this week. Yesterdays was SteamOS, today it is probably going to be the SteamBox but tommorows is supposedly a game.....(probably L4D3 though).

Watch it be the next TF2 hats update...

"HL3 Confirmed!"

pgmason wrote:
Reading the BBC article, it seems that pay is determined collectively. The entire company basically votes on who they think are the smartest and most productive people, to establish a ranking, and pay levels are set according to that. Similarly, everyone has input into hiring and firing.

Seems like an interesting structure, and it clearly works for them.

Its a good thing they didnt hire Frazzled then, he'd just vote himself all the dollars with how awesome he is, bankrupt the company and then return to his miserable old job to the song of choirs and angels and guitar solo's.

He who has the gold makes the rules!

Really? 2 pages about whether or not Valve has "bosses"?

Who gives a frak? Sheesh.

Agreed, they probably have among the flattest organizational structures I've ever seen. Nobody doubts that Gabe N makes the final calls, but unlike a lot of companies, their people are given freedom to take initiative in ways I doubt many others are.

If you really want more insight into how Valve is run, go snag Portal 2 The Final Hours, which is on Steam for a whopping $2, and goes into detail about how the project came to be. How they decide what to work on, how resources are allocated, etc. There's also said employee manual, and Raising the Bar, though that's more than a few years old now.

 Forar wrote:
go snag Portal 2 The Final Hours, which is on Steam for a whopping $2, and goes into detail about how the project came to be. How they decide what to work on, how resources are allocated, etc. There's also said employee manual, and Raising the Bar, though that's more than a few years old now.

But then I'd have 2 less dollars, which is way more important than being less ignorant and not having an excuse to artificially inflate my post count/self worth with minimalist posts that are barely relevent to the topic at hand.

... Touche.

Maybe if we're lucky it'll go down to 50 cents during the Winter sale and then people will have only 50 cents less and still have a full quarter of the year to inflate their post count! Win/Win! :-D

 Grundz wrote:

pgmason wrote:
Reading the BBC article, it seems that pay is determined collectively. The entire company basically votes on who they think are the smartest and most productive people, to establish a ranking, and pay levels are set according to that. Similarly, everyone has input into hiring and firing.

Seems like an interesting structure, and it clearly works for them.

Its a good thing they didnt hire Frazzled then, he'd just vote himself all the dollars with how awesome he is, bankrupt the company and then return to his miserable old job to the song of choirs and angels and guitar solo's.

He who has the gold makes the rules!

Strangely Grundz is nearly 100% correct.
However, I'd be in Mexico and my new name would be Jesus. you could find me in my usual chair on the beach...
Uno mas tequila por favor.

 Frazzled wrote:

Strangely Grundz is nearly 100% correct.
However, I'd be in Mexico and my new name would be Jesus. you could find me in my usual chair on the beach...
Uno mas tequila por favor.

 Grundz wrote:
not having an excuse to artificially inflate my post count/self worth with minimalist posts that are barely relevent to the topic at hand.

and there's my point

Your point is that you would change your name to Jesus or that your posts are barely relevant?

I'm saying that of your ~42,000 posts there's probably a hundred that actually say anything.

I'm sure dakka appreciates your pageviews though!

I think we're better just moving here

Thanks.

 Grundz wrote:
I'm saying that of your ~42,000 posts there's probably a hundred that actually say anything.

I'm sure dakka appreciates your pageviews though!

Pah, at least 200 are meaningful. You clearly are a cat lover, blinded by their feline evil.

Now back to the topic.

I could see a small company with the right industry having such a culture. A small company with lots of ongoing tasks however, no.
This structure would not work in say, a billing company, or a pizza shop. Disagree?

I could see it working in a small pizza shop, but in one that's part of a chain, like Domino's.

It all comes down to size. With much smaller organisations - say a small-firm accountant, lawyer, single non-chain pizza place, Mom-and-Pop store - having any kind of manager beyond "the owner" would be a maddening waste of a paycheck. This swings more the bigger and bigger the company you're looking at gets. It's a rare company that can do away with managers at 300 people, but as I mentioned before, Valve do a lot of work that can't really be measured by traditional performance indicators (games don't turn profits until years later down the line) so there's less need for managers to begin with.

Id Software are another good example of a development company that punched above their weight in terms of profit per employee. They're owned by Bethesda now, so the following may no longer be the case and I'm willing to bet they're nowhere near as "free" as they used to be, but before the buyout they had only a small number of staff. Small enough that they had only a couple of management staff who were also the owners (and chief among them John Carmack, who confessed he had little involvement in management and spent most of his days coding) and their traditional reception role was replaced by "id Mom". I'm not even kidding - that was Donna Jackson's actual job title and she took care of things beyond a receptionist's role and into more things that I would consider a HR job.