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 Alfndrate wrote:

True Line of Sight is really what causes MFA in 40k. If they did base to base, and a 25mm based model took up 1 inch by 1 inch and a 40mm base was 2x2, etc... then it wouldn't matter, but because they use TLoS, we get these wonky situations...

But then you'd miss out on the fun of working your head into awkward places on the tabletop, stabbing yourself in the eye with spears, and getting into arguments over if you can see a tiny fraction of someone's outstretched arm!

 Elemental wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

True Line of Sight is really what causes MFA in 40k. If they did base to base, and a 25mm based model took up 1 inch by 1 inch and a 40mm base was 2x2, etc... then it wouldn't matter, but because they use TLoS, we get these wonky situations...

But then you'd miss out on the fun of working your head into awkward places on the tabletop, stabbing yourself in the eye with spears, and getting into arguments over if you can see a tiny fraction of someone's outstretched arm!

at that point I would just say I don't have line of sight. If all I can see is a pinky it doesn't make since to be able to shoot/wound the model.

An abstract LOS system like Warmahordes would be great... except they would then need to actually make and support such a system and not to have it be full of crazy exceptions... And I still have no idea how non-based vehicles would work.

I do think 'base size' being part of the stat line is way overdue and the first step to a better world. On the flip side, I can see the wailing and gnashing of teeth when they officially say 40mm terminators or something.

nkelsch wrote:
An abstract LOS system like Warmahordes would be great... except they would then need to actually make and support such a system and not to have it be full of crazy exceptions... And I still have no idea how non-based vehicles would work.

I do think 'base size' being part of the stat line is way overdue and the first step to a better world. On the flip side, I can see the wailing and gnashing of teeth when they officially say 40mm terminators or something.

We have a guy at my store that has a Dark Angels army from way the hell back in the day. All of his Dreads are on square 50mm bases, whenever someone says it should be on a 60mm round, he says, "I'm playing with the base it was provided with." and technically no one can tell him otherwise since such a rule doesn't exist.

nkelsch wrote:
An abstract LOS system like Warmahordes would be great... except they would then need to actually make and support such a system and not to have it be full of crazy exceptions... And I still have no idea how non-based vehicles would work.

I do think 'base size' being part of the stat line is way overdue and the first step to a better world. On the flip side, I can see the wailing and gnashing of teeth when they officially say 40mm terminators or something.

Nothing stopping people using sabot bases (or even just a thin disc to put under the base) to turn their 25mm Terminator bases into 40mm to comply with the base size rule. I'm not sure if GW's ever reduced the size of a base?

I modelled Shorty in the front of this trio to look cool and to change the sillouette of an otherwise very monopose model.
I'd never field him without having another full height Trygon onhand to stand in for shooting at, from and through purposes if needed.
Never had a problem so far but i'm sure that would be different if all of my Trygon models were Shorties.

To answer the thread title.
OK? Nope It's kind of sneaky
Against the rules? Nope in terms of brb
Who decides? Ultimately your opponent, they can always leave the table.

 Absolutionis wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
Well it comes down to the tournament organiser doesn't it? He shouldn't have accepted them on the phone, and when he finally saw them he should have ban

Banning someone's models seems exceptionally rude especially when they were already accepted. Some people drive a long way with their models looking forward to meeting like-minded individuals. For the tournament organizer to go back on their word is unacceptable.

And from a TO's point of view: Abusing players count on this.

1) Step one, vague info given over the phone, make sure to talk about how cool the army is, how much you love the fluff, how you heard great things about the store and the tournamens BUT..you don't play much competitive 40k.
2) Using step 1 and the fact that most people are pretty reasonable, get a "probably ok".
3) Day of tournament use the "it's vague" "my store lets me" "you approved it and I drove a long way" Cards.

Next Tournament you have a new card: "But these were ok to play with last time!"

Easy solution: Your opponent is always considered to have LOS on all of your models, regardless of intervening terrain, since you cannot be relied upon to be a fair opponent.

Have a good game. Next time, bring a fair army.

The Auld Grump

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:

I modelled Shorty in the front of this trio to look cool and to change the sillouette of an otherwise very monopose model.
I'd never field him without having another full height Trygon onhand to stand in for shooting at, from and through purposes if needed.
Never had a problem so far but i'm sure that would be different if all of my Trygon models were Shorties.

To answer the thread title.
OK? Nope It's kind of sneaky
Against the rules? Nope in terms of brb
Who decides? Ultimately your opponent, they can always leave the table.

Well, in a tournament, they really can't leave the table.

I find your model to be fine for 99% of games, and your solution of subbing in something else if there is a close situation totally acceptable.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:

I modelled Shorty in the front of this trio to look cool and to change the sillouette of an otherwise very monopose model.
I'd never field him without having another full height Trygon onhand to stand in for shooting at, from and through purposes if needed.
Never had a problem so far but i'm sure that would be different if all of my Trygon models were Shorties.

To answer the thread title.
OK? Nope It's kind of sneaky
Against the rules? Nope in terms of brb
Who decides? Ultimately your opponent, they can always leave the table.

Forget subbing, if someone has gone to that much effort to make a model look cool, dynamic and individual then im fine with playing against it as it is.
I have IG that I have modelled as crouching, utilising the HW squad legs, whilst I have members of said HW squad standing. It adds a little extra to my army, and stops it being a monopose, boring horde.

I also have an old Airfix Mech model that I converted to represent a Hellhound, with a Multi Melta represented by an SRM pack (a Sentinel missile pod) and the main gun being an Inferno cannon from a Landraider Redeemer. The pintle Heavy Stubber is represented by an AMS system made from some spare parts. It stands taller than the regular model, but all the weapons, except the AMS are fixed forward firing, on a model with a 45 degree from the centre upper torso twist. All in all, it works out as a balanced model, and most of my opponents are fine with it.

Modelling for advantage... OK or against the rules and who decides?

Rule of cool usually applies. If the model looks cool and isn't 2x times bigger or smaller than it's supposed to be, go for it.

As for who decides: Me. In all cases. I let my hammer of justice do the talking.

All in all TLOS is pretty ridiculous in a game. It assumes that a unit will not duck behind cover and is stuck in the same pose for the entirety of the battle. An abstraction of true line of sight would work better in my mind. Like chest high walls giving you partial cover and full height walls giving you full cover.