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Martel732 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

So why didn't they just scout, outflank, deepstrike around you?

Because piecemealing your forces is a good way to get tabled.

All stock troops for GKs can deepstrike naturally.

There's something to be said for GKs in particular deepstriking.

But by being in reserves piecemeals your forces by definition. I spent all of 5th cutting lists to pieces that tried fancy reserve crap and deep strike crap. Without perfect terrain, you are relying on your opponent to cooperate an awful lot.

Martel732 wrote:
But by being in reserves piecemeals your forces by definition. I spent all of 5th cutting lists to pieces that tried fancy reserve crap and deep strike crap. Without perfect terrain, you are relying on your opponent to cooperate an awful lot.

It seems to me like you're saying I have no tactical thought whatsoever when placing units from reserve. I can't even begin to understand what the above is trying to prove.

...and I'm leaving this conversation at that.

We can get back on topic.

All I'm saying is that 40K is a tactical game, not strategic and I feel reserves are more of a strategic concept. I've seen reserves blow up in people's faces over and over. Deep strike making it even worse.

Martel732 wrote:
But by being in reserves piecemeals your forces by definition. I spent all of 5th cutting lists to pieces that tried fancy reserve crap and deep strike crap. Without perfect terrain, you are relying on your opponent to cooperate an awful lot.

Reserve based armies can work - but you need to build your army around them.

This past weekend I played a seer council army, and he started the game with 4 wave serpents and a DE warrior squad off the board. The only thing on the board was the seer council (which was already nigh-invulnerable)

As his serpents came onto the board, they got the alpha strike on my units.

Okay, true enough. But having that nigh invulnerable unit to start on the board is really nice. The primary problem I have noticed with both using reserves and playing against them is being able to focus fire down the available targets. And, of course, reduced turns to do your own shooting.

Martel732 wrote:
Okay, true enough. But having that nigh invulnerable unit to start on the board is really nice. The primary problem I have noticed with both using reserves and playing against them is being able to focus fire down the available targets. And, of course, reduced turns to do your own shooting.

For GKs you weren't shooting for 1 - 2 turns anyways...so landing with you whole unit intact and within range. (Because 24" is easy to get with an average 7" scatter)

And you can throw down those hardy units like Terminators to hold the game first turn.

Not best all the time...but a good option much of the time.

It's why I get leery of Purifiers...no option to deepstrike like strikers.

I choose to go 2nd a lot. As an Eldar player, last turn JBike objective stealing has won me ...well... the overwhelming majority of my wins. And in 1/3 of matches (Scouring -Fast Attack- and Big Guns Never Tire -Heavies-) my hardest and /or fastest targets can last-turn-steal as well, too.

Reserve JBikes for win. They even netted me 2 separate Heldrake kills when I shot the JBike SCannon up it's tailpipe.

If I'm using just Dark Eldar, I want 1st. They can kill quick but, they die too fast for "fighting it out to the last turn" to be a consistent strategy. So I try to pour on as much Disintegrator and Dark (G)Lance fire as I can.

What ruins my day the most, as has been previously said, is when I go 1st, deploy in a way that lets me get turn 2 assaults -and- drown them in bullets (or shuriken crystal-shaving thingys?) and then they get that 6. That 6. Awww.......Fffffuuu.....