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Can't remember were I read this but I think original 30k marines may have been virtually immortal but the genetic weakening since has meant subsequent marines will be more prone to age and general wear and tear.

I remember that there was an in-character comment, between two GC-era Marines, that they believed that they may be biologically immortal, but none of them would ever live to test the theory.

 chilledmonkeybrains wrote:

1. What would a 10,000 year old astartes look like (i.e. would he look really bloody old)?

2. How would this incredible age affect an astartes? Would he be considerably slower or weaker? What about his mental health?

One of the earth astartes is really old in one of the HH books (flight of the watchmacallit) and is weaker than the other ones but still commands respect, I think that in one of the books astarts continue to grow through out their lives and get taller and taller with age, if thats true he may be a foot or so taller than a standard marine

3. Are there any examples (outside of a dreadnought’s sarcophagus) in 40k literature of extremely ancient astartes?

All the Chaos special characters except lufgt huron

 Psienesis wrote:
Actually, he's not. He's senile as hell, and often thinks he's in, like, M34 or something. It takes the Rune Priests longer and longer to wake him each time they do so, and he will often refer to them, or to the other command-staff of the Chapter, as long-dead members of the Chapter who once held those jobs.

In one of the GK models he was perfectly coherent and intelligent. Longer and longer to awake doesn't mean he is senile or anything else. Lastly, referring to those waking him as old people would, frankly, be perfectly normal. If you're asleep and do not register the passage of time, why would he *not* think they are those people?

In Codex: Space Wolves, going back to 2nd/3rd edition, they paint a picture of Bjorn being the senile grandpa of the Space Wolf Chapter, one whom the Rune Priests grow more and more cautious about waking, unless the need is very dire.

And why would he not think they are the people who he remembers from 3,000 years ago? Probably because they don't sound or look like those people did, and I'd imagine there's a digital clock on the HUD of a dreadnought.

Not to mention a man of his obvious intelligence would think "I may have been asleep for a while, let's ask for their names first before calling them PETER AND JOHN THAT I REMEMBER FROM LAST TIME and look like a madman."

Well with dreads it often came down to the person inside. But they don't suffer craziness due age or senile. Its more of they sleep and they get lost in their dreams much like a coma. A disconnect from the world and relive the times of flesh and blood.

The effort to awaken them is large the older they are. The machine itself is old. Then as mentioned above dreaming of the 30k time period and waking up to new events is hard to keep straight.

In an assault on the fang where it was left with few marines there at the time. Bjorn was awoken who assumed command of the defenses. Hard to awaken but clear in getting the job done. They may not know who the current captains are but their still a marine in mind just from a time long ago

Some do weaken from the time loss of sorts and go nuts others just refuse to awaken.

Well with dreads it often came down to the person inside. But they don't suffer craziness due age or senile. Its more of they sleep and they get lost in their dreams much like a coma. A disconnect from the world and relive the times of flesh and blood.

That would be senility, like when your grandparents start calling you by the childhood nickname of your parents, forgetting that you have even been born yet, asking if we've whipped that Adolf guy yet, and those sorts of things.

...though I do like the 1d4Chan story about Bjorn, especially when the Blood Ravens steal him.

squidhills wrote:

As for mental deterioration... it was mentioned in one of the codexes a while back that dreadnaughts do suffer some mental deterioration.

And there's the ennui that comes with being old, really old, and all you once knew are dead. Dante is mentioned to be very tired of it all by this point and basically just goes on because he thinks he'll be needed to defend the Emperor one last time.

Definitely Iacton Qruze, the Half-Heard. He's old before the Heresy Starts and they describe him as something of an old, stormy-faced golem. That said, he still manages to gut that mutey-guard who was transforming into a Space Marine in Flight of the Eisenstein.

Another one, though I don't know if he survived or if he entered the Warp, but Maloghurst the Twisted, personal equerry to Horus himself. The thing about Maloghurst however, was that he suffered an accident early on that saw his spine twisted irreparably and augmetics grafted to allow him to stand and move.

I think the important thing to realize is that, considering the depravity Chaos Space Marines exhibit, that any gene-seed Space Marine or equivalent/similar of Man is either Immortal, nor immune to the ravages of Time. Mind, Body, Spirit, it all goes after so long. Just look at the mess that became the Primarchs.

Knockagh wrote:
Can't remember were I read this but I think original 30k marines may have been virtually immortal but the genetic weakening since has meant subsequent marines will be more prone to age and general wear and tear.

Theoreticall, 40K Marines are superior to 30K Marines, since the entire purpose of the Codex Astartes was to codify the creation process, and thus minimize the non-standard practices the Legions were using to bolster their numbers.

But the Marines in question had no idea if they were immortal. They were just guessing. Remember, the Great Crusade only lasted ~200 years. So most of the Marines at the time of the Heresy had barely scratched the surface of immortality. They just knew they lived significantly longer than regular humans, and since they weren't aging significantly, assumed that it was possible that they were immortal.

I think the important thing to realize is that, considering the depravity Chaos Space Marines exhibit, that any gene-seed Space Marine or equivalent/similar of Man is either Immortal, nor immune to the ravages of Time. Mind, Body, Spirit, it all goes after so long. Just look at the mess that became the Primarchs.

The geneseed is definitely not immortal, that's why they have to have tithes of it to Mars or, in the case of CSM, have to raid or somehow capture new supplies of it... or establish work-arounds. Like any organic substance, it rots and decays.

Theoreticall, 40K Marines are superior to 30K Marines, since the entire purpose of the Codex Astartes was to codify the creation process, and thus minimize the non-standard practices the Legions were using to bolster their numbers.

Actually the Emperor's Children and the Ultramarines were listed as the most effective of all the legions, as both Legions' implants were all completely operational. So I would say that only the Ultramarines and their successors are still "better" than 30K marines, as all the other Chapters have had degradations to their geneseed over the millenia.

The thing about Astartes ages everyone has to remember is that everything about Space marines is steadily being thrown out of proportion by fans. Back in the 2nd edition Ultramarines codex Chaplain Cassius is spoken of as looking very aged, when "most Space Marines do not begin to show their age until over three hundred years old". That seems to imply that back then a marine of 300-500 years old was considered by the fluff writers to be very old, with only Dante being an extreme example of Space Marine age.

Now Space Marines can pretty much do everything but fly like Superman.