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 Kanluwen wrote:
The issue apparently is that the CSM player is using various cult/marked units like Plague Marines and Thousand Sons alongside of generic Marines with bolters and fittings, with all the units painted the same.

All I can say to this is: So??

You can do this with any army. I had people complain because my eldar aspects were painted to match the color of the rest of my army because I think it is dumb to always paint scorpions green and dire avengers blue with white helmets and so on. The army was painted in natural browns and tans and people also complained that everything looked the same and because they were lazy I was expected to paint my aspect warriors just like everyone else. So sorry that my army was *uniform*. Hahahahahaha...My chaos armies now all have unified color schemes so the chosen are painted the same as the berserkers who are painted the same as the havocs. Only time units are different is if I combine forces from a couple of my separate armies, which I rarely do.

I am curious if there is some other part of this story not being told, like a requirement to have X different colors of paint on models to be able to use them in games and the paint job is just a form of protest against that. I've seen that too. When you specify the number of colors people imagine, at a minimum cleanly blocked out sections of color on the model and those who are annoyed by such restrictions do their best to avoid that expectation while still fulfilling the letter of the rule.

Skriker

 Skriker wrote:

All I can say to this is: So??

You can do this with any army. I had people complain because my eldar aspects were painted to match the color of the rest of my army because I think it is dumb to always paint scorpions green and dire avengers blue with white helmets and so on. The army was painted in natural browns and tans and people also complained that everything looked the same and because they were lazy I was expected to paint my aspect warriors just like everyone else. So sorry that my army was *uniform*. Hahahahahaha...My chaos armies now all have unified color schemes so the chosen are painted the same as the berserkers who are painted the same as the havocs. Only time units are different is if I combine forces from a couple of my separate armies, which I rarely do.

I am curious if there is some other part of this story not being told, like a requirement to have X different colors of paint on models to be able to use them in games and the paint job is just a form of protest against that. I've seen that too. When you specify the number of colors people imagine, at a minimum cleanly blocked out sections of color on the model and those who are annoyed by such restrictions do their best to avoid that expectation while still fulfilling the letter of the rule.

Skriker

Thousand Sons and Plague Marines have unique rules that make them significantly different to the standard Chaos Marine profile. They have similar equipment loadouts(bolters and power armor) and traditionally are differentiated from your standard Chaos Marine in one of two ways. They are painted in the "Legion" colors(Green/brass for Plague Marines and blue/gold for the Thousand Sons) or they are represented using the models specifically labeled as such.

The OP has specified that the individual who he is complaining about is utilizing the standard Chaos Marine kits without any kind of differentiation.

Your example of the different Aspect Warriors/Berzerkers, etc is flawed because those various kits all have some kind of distinctive visual cues that let you still know what the unit is without having the color scheme present. The Berzerkers have pistols/CCWs, Aspect Warriors have different weapons based on the type and other things of that nature.

If you ran a list with just Dire Avengers and Guardians, with no weapon platforms for the Guardians and your Dire Avengers not having any of their special kit or the distinctive crested helmet/paint scheme?

Then you are going to have some issues.

Scenario 1)
"I'm going to shoot at this unit."
*shoots*
"oh wait, wrong unit! Damn!"

Scenario 2)
"I'm going to shoot at this troop choice of CSM with the bolters. That's the unit with the lasgun in it, right?"
"No, those are Obliterators."

Disaster averted!

While I would point out to the player that some way to differentiate a little would be cool, I would still put it mainly on the opponent of this kid to make sure they are shooting the right target. It's not really that hard.

Let it go... its not that big of a deal, and frankly I think its a pretty awesome statement

XxXBigBizzXxX wrote:
Let it go... its not that big of a deal, and frankly I think its a pretty awesome statement

It actually is a big deal. Plague Marines and Thousand Sons have some pretty important differences from a standard CSM squad that necessitate shifts of tactics or prioritization to deal with them.

It is his duty to clearly differentiate units if he's using counts-as, proxies, conversions, etc. If there is literally no way to tell the difference between an unmarked CSM and a Plague Marine, that is a huge, rule-breaking problem.

It is also your own duty to ensure you know which unit is which if the opponent isn't being WYSIWYG and you agree to play him. It's unfair to blame others for your own mistakes when they could be avoided by simply asking what the unit that you're attempting to shoot at is. Of course, if this guy isn't WYSIWYG and he's not making any effort to differentiate units, then there's really no way to prevent cheating if both players have no idea which unit is which.

This is a non-issue for me - I'd just put a little extra effort into ensuring I remember which unit is which.

Now, I need to clarify things.

Is this an example of a case of having a squad of ten "Chaos marines", but within that squad are models from Chaos marines, Plague marines, and Thousand Sons, so it is hard to figure out what the squad is supposed to be from looking at the models?

Of are you having trouble differentiating his Squads of Chaos Marines from his squads of Plague Marines?

Because the former is more of a problem than the latter.

 Tyberos the Red Wake wrote:
It is his duty to clearly differentiate units if he's using counts-as, proxies, conversions, etc. If there is literally no way to tell the difference between an unmarked CSM and a Plague Marine, that is a huge, rule-breaking problem.

Can you cite the rules he had broken please, I can not find them.

As this is not a YMDC thread and it is quite old, it probably doesn't really matter anymore. Locking now…