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LightKing wrote:
i feel like eldar fluff is messed up


the old ones created the eldar, but that must mean they created the eldar gods?

I'm sorry, but what?

How did you come to this conclusion? It was the Eldar and their pre-excessive/hedonistic lifestyle that gave way to development of the Eldar Pantheon comprising of Khaine, Asuryan and others within the warp, not the Old Ones. Are you asking if the Old Ones indirectly had a role in this pantheon coming into existence via the Eldar? Because if so, your assumption would be correct. However, given the way causation works this doesn't mean the Old Ones can claim credit for creating the Eldar pantheon. That's like me claiming I was a creator of my dog's poop because I fed her the food for her to process and release it. I may have had a hand in providing some of the requisite...components for the poop to be produced but without my dog the poop would not exist.

I also don't understand how that makes eldar background fiction messed up. You REALLY have to work on how you "do" your research. Literally typing in what you're looking for is NOT one of the ways to go. This forum is not your personal fluff vending machine, be considerate in how you are increasingly annoying others with your easily answerable spam questions.

LightKing wrote:
we got the C'Tan, all whiped out

I'm not sure where you got this idea. The only C'tan to be wholly destroyed was Llandu'gor the Flayer.

All of the c'tan shards are still "alive" although not nearly as powerful. If the necrodermis of a c'tan is destroyed, the sharded c'tan itself can merge with other sharded c'tan to become more powerful. Transcendent C'tan are supposedly scores or hundreds of merged c'tan shards.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Except not everything feeds chaos. You can be vain and a perfectionist and not give a shred of power to Slannesh. You could be cruel and brutal and Khorne will never receive a skull.

I'd hazard that none of the killing done in DE arenas feed Khorne. You usually have to work in the name of a god in order for that god to receive its due. If an Eldar kills a guardsmen and says thanks to his own god, that god will be the only one to get the trophy.

If it was possible for a god to just sit back and slurp power due to the random actions of people simply because that action fit somewhere into their domains, they really wouldn't have to campaign for your allegiance in the first place and that would rather defeat the whole point.

The 4 powers aren't the only chaos powers, there are lesser ones that feed on different emotions/feelings.
I wonder if there are any gods that hide in plain sight? Making themselves look like a demon as not to be devoured by any chaos powers.

 Grimskul wrote:

LightKing wrote:
i feel like eldar fluff is messed up


the old ones created the eldar, but that must mean they created the eldar gods?

I'm sorry, but what?

How did you come to this conclusion? It was the Eldar and their pre-excessive/hedonistic lifestyle that gave way to development of the Eldar Pantheon comprising of Khaine, Asuryan and others within the warp, not the Old Ones. Are you asking if the Old Ones indirectly had a role in this pantheon coming into existence via the Eldar? Because if so, your assumption would be correct. However, given the way causation works this doesn't mean the Old Ones can claim credit for creating the Eldar pantheon. That's like me claiming I was a creator of my dog's poop because I fed her the food for her to process and release it. I may have had a hand in providing some of the requisite...components for the poop to be produced but without my dog the poop would not exist.

I also don't understand how that makes eldar background fiction messed up. You REALLY have to work on how you "do" your research. Literally typing in what you're looking for is NOT one of the ways to go. This forum is not your personal fluff vending machine, be considerate in how you are increasingly annoying others with your easily answerable spam questions.

how did the eldar gods come into existence then

From Eldar emotions and belief, shaping the warp.

Same way the Ork ones did, and the chaos Powers.

Psychic power shapes Warpspace, and a whole race , especially a HUGE one like the Eldar Empire or the Ork race as a whole, has a huge effect on the warp.

The Old Ones altered the evolution of the Eldar and the Orks, (and others) and both races are highly psychic. They didn't create the deities of either race. The races in question did that as a reflection of themselves.

Slaanesh was formed form the Eldar empire going more and more depraved and fethed up (with almost all of them acting like DE). The DE STILL act that way, which feeds Slaanesh eben though they are in denial about the whole thing

Humanity is just starting to get highly psychic, becoming more and more so as time wears on.

LightKing wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

LightKing wrote:
i feel like eldar fluff is messed up


the old ones created the eldar, but that must mean they created the eldar gods?

I'm sorry, but what?

How did you come to this conclusion? It was the Eldar and their pre-excessive/hedonistic lifestyle that gave way to development of the Eldar Pantheon comprising of Khaine, Asuryan and others within the warp, not the Old Ones. Are you asking if the Old Ones indirectly had a role in this pantheon coming into existence via the Eldar? Because if so, your assumption would be correct. However, given the way causation works this doesn't mean the Old Ones can claim credit for creating the Eldar pantheon. That's like me claiming I was a creator of my dog's poop because I fed her the food for her to process and release it. I may have had a hand in providing some of the requisite...components for the poop to be produced but without my dog the poop would not exist.

I also don't understand how that makes eldar background fiction messed up. You REALLY have to work on how you "do" your research. Literally typing in what you're looking for is NOT one of the ways to go. This forum is not your personal fluff vending machine, be considerate in how you are increasingly annoying others with your easily answerable spam questions.

how did the eldar gods come into existence then

 Ascalam wrote:
From Eldar emotions and belief, shaping the warp.

Same way the Ork ones did, and the chaos Powers.

Psychic power shapes Warpspace, and a whole race , especially a HUGE one like the Eldar Empire or the Ork race as a whole, has a huge effect on the warp.

The Old Ones altered the evolution of the Eldar and the Orks, (and others) and both races are highly psychic. They didn't create the deities of either race. The races in question did that as a reflection of themselves.

Humanity is just starting to get highly psychic, becoming more and more so as time wears on.

ok i understand now...... so humanity isn't at a high psyker status......but isn't the emperor the pre-eminent psyker in the 40k galaxy

Yes, the Emperor is a powe level Eleventy billion psyker.

Happy now?

 djones520 wrote:
Yes, the Emperor is a powe level Eleventy billion psyker.

Happy now?

i just didnt know how the gods of the xeno races came into existence......

The emperor is/was pretty burly psyker-wise.


Doesn't mean the rest of Humanity is.

He is a special case, with some fairly slowed fluff on how he got to be that way.

As to him being the pre-eminent psyker, that would depend on whio you ask. Tzeentch might well have a claim on that one also, but the IOM fans will say big E is best, and the non-IOM fans will say Tzeentch is. The Hive mind might well be more powerful than either, or not.

Tzeench is not a psyker.

He's the god of magic, where magic = psyker ability.

Near enough.

Or what would you define him as?

SkyHawk wrote:


Humans - God Emperor of Mankind. While technically not a God, he is worshipped as such due to the Ecclesiarchy. He has been on life support for the last 10,000 years in a catatonic state on Terra if you consider that "alive."

Automatically Appended Next Post:
OH and I don't know enough about Gork and Mork to answer that one. Tau have no concept of the Warp so the don't have any gods.

I always thought that the fluff was contradictory in this manner, because if belief is what gives the Gods power, such as the inherent violence of humanity is what gives Khorne power, or the inherent scheming gives tzeentch power, shouldn't Gork and Mork be the most powerful, closely followed by the big E, who has literally trlllions of humans worshipping him all day every day?

The Big E would be empowered by the endless collective worship of immense numbers of humans that have been brainwashed to the point that they make modern Islamic suicide bombers seem like wishy washy, church once a year kinda guys.

So why do they need to sacrifice psykers at all?! Surely all of that background psychic energy coming from the endless collective worship of a trillion humans should be enough to ensure that the Emperor is strong enough to bang pick up Tzeentch by the ankles and beat Nurgle to death with him?

 Ascalam wrote:
He's the god of magic, where magic = psyker ability.

Near enough.

Or what would you define him as?

Not exactly IMO, given that psykers channel the warp and since Tzeentch is literally part of the warp he would not be subject to the categorization of how they access and utilize the warp particularly since his followers more or less draw on his own power to fuel their psychic powers/sorcery (Lore of Tzeentch) which no other records of psykers have been shown to do on that level of scale.

LightKing wrote:

i just didnt know how the gods of the xeno races came into existence......

Stop spamming the forums, start using proper grammar, and start reading. The feelings of the Xenos races created their gods.

The process went like this:

Old Ones make Orks/Eldar > Orks/Eldar have feelings > Feelings made into "legit" form > Gods like Gork/Mork/Khaine created

Lucarikx

LightKing wrote:

 djones520 wrote:
Yes, the Emperor is a powe level Eleventy billion psyker.

Happy now?

i just didnt know how the gods of the xeno races came into existence......

Yeah that's what books, or better yet, 40k wiki, are for. In fact I suggest reading lots and lots and Lots, and don't EVER COME BACK UNTILL THEN.

Of course the whole, 'the Old Ones made the Eldar et cetera', has not be re-iterated in the current Codex: Necrons so it is debatable now if this is true anymore or if these races were simply allies of the Old Ones. As I've said many times, I am biased towards the latter as that 'Old Ones did everything' fluff is just garbage to me.

Of course, the background for the gods is heavily conflated by the way GW have spun their origins in various editions and sources. Hence the confusion this can cause.

If we ignore the rubbish from the old Codex: Necrons...

The Chaos Gods were created directly by mankind in the same way as the eldar created Slaanesh - thoughts, dreams, desires et cetera, all emotion, goring in the warp created vast swirling psychic storms of anger, fear and what have you. These warp storms became so vast that they took on personalities of their own. The other gods came into being in the same manner but were more specific to an element of the race that created them.

The Emperor though isn't like that. In the dim and distant past, before the rise of the Chaos Powers early human psykers were able to reincarnate. When they died, their souls would be released into the warp where they would rejuvenate and they be reborn into a new body.

With the rise of the Chaos Powers their souls began to be consumed. Realising that their days were numbers millions of these psykers (or Shamen as they are called) committed ritual suicide and combined all of their souls, some of whom had been reincarnated over hundreds of thousands and millions of years, into one single body. That person became the Emperor. That is why He is so powerful.

It could be that all of the human worship done in His name is empowering the Emperor or it could well be creating a seperate warp power. In a similar vein the eldar also have Ynnead; the combining of the the souls of the dead eldar contained in the inifinity circuit into one being.

 mattyrm wrote:



I always thought that the fluff was contradictory in this manner, because if belief is what gives the Gods power, such as the inherent violence of humanity is what gives Khorne power, or the inherent scheming gives tzeentch power, shouldn't Gork and Mork be the most powerful, closely followed by the big E, who has literally trlllions of humans worshipping him all day every day?

The Big E would be empowered by the endless collective worship of immense numbers of humans that have been brainwashed to the point that they make modern Islamic suicide bombers seem like wishy washy, church once a year kinda guys.

So why do they need to sacrifice psykers at all?! Surely all of that background psychic energy coming from the endless collective worship of a trillion humans should be enough to ensure that the Emperor is strong enough to bang pick up Tzeentch by the ankles and beat Nurgle to death with him?

In older fluff, the worship has coalesced as the Starchild. Although it occasionally manifests in living saints and such, this power is not awake yet, as it is tethered to the Corpse-Emperor, who uses a large chunk of power to direct the Astronomicon beam and seal the warprift he's sitting on.

Hence the old Illuminati plot to sacrifice all of his kids to him simultaneously and pull the plug on the throne, jumpstarting the Starchild's awakening as it scours the Warp clean in a surge of power.

 mattyrm wrote:
I always thought that the fluff was contradictory in this manner, because if belief is what gives the Gods power, such as the inherent violence of humanity is what gives Khorne power, or the inherent scheming gives tzeentch power, shouldn't Gork and Mork be the most powerful, closely followed by the big E, who has literally trlllions of humans worshipping him all day every day?

I wouldn't say belief, so much as though as mental energies of thought and feeling in general. This is why the Chaos Gods are so strong, rage and hatred and other base emotions are far more elemental than than higher concepts such as belief in gods.