Playing 30k and 40k together. Does it work?

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**ZebioLizard2**

MIni MIehm wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
MIni MIehm wrote:
I've actually been thinking really ahrd about running a Legio Cybernetica list. Part of their weakness is they don't have a l;ot of options, and some of their really good ones are just oh my god expensive. 900 points for ten Secutors with 2x Fusils? Fun to look at, but I would hate to lose it, sinc you just dropped half your army right there.

Also, no real fast attack choices. You can have Sentry Guns or Air Support. Pick one. Neither one really seems super awesome. Another issue is that I've read some people taking the stance that Ordo Reductor and Legio Cybernetica are separate lists, so no Mechanicum Land Raider for your Thallax if you play the Legio list. It's one reason I'm tempted to rely on Castellax, and Adsecularis Thralls for my troops picks.

Also also, because I have a tendency to ramble, elites choices. I can't really see any reason for a person to take a Enginseer Auxilia when they have access to no vehicles. Unless you add in a Reductor AD, which might actually go quite a ways towards making this list a bit better.

If you take Ferrox on the Thrallax they become Fast Attack.

Also forgeworld themselves said they are separate lists, but they can be allied.

Yeah, but Thallax are fairly mediocre troops anyway, from what I can tell. The drop in cover saves is nice, but I feel like the weapons are too short ranged, and the assault isn't quite good enough to make up for their weaknesses. I'm really waiting for more stuff to be added to the Cybernetica list or the Reductor list in the next Heresy book, but I have no idea when we're going to get it, or what it's going to be.

They've mostly been tank hunters with base Lightning guns, Marine hunters with Fusils, and well Irad clensers do better against Xenos then MEQ.

Though I have to say I absolutely love fighting Word Bearers, so many new and unique options, and the Possessed that CSM should've had are just more interesting things to fight.

**EyeOfDC**

wait. the HH WB have posessed?

**ZebioLizard2**

EyeOfDC wrote:
wait. the HH WB have posessed?

Yes, the Gal Vorbok with their WS5/S5/T5/I5/2W with bolt pistols, daemon, rage, stubborn, rending, and deep strike, and can take one special weapon per 5.

they also have:

Dark Channeling: Chance for Zealot, +1S, daemon (but they count as destroyed) if they have a Diabolist in the army as an upgrade for squads

Can take Allied Chaos Daemons by taking: Erebus, Kor Phaeron, or the Rite of War The Dark Brethren.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gal_Vorbak

**Lobokai**

I've played against 30k Salamanders, Death Guard, Sons of Horus, Night Lords, and World Eaters. I've always ran standard 40k lists, let them have their FoC and I took mine, in 2k+ games (all my club plays) they've not been unbalanced at all. In fact, if anything I've felt like the 40k armies have a slight advantage more often than not.

**Col. Dash**

Low point games screw HH lists over. Mid point games and higher though are very balanced. Certainly no marine or MC player enjoys running into an all plasma toting support squad or moritat but the HH player does pay heavily for those toys which are situational(yeah plasma works great against most things but more often would a bolter.

HH is by far the most balanced army list released by GW and GW main should hire the FW designers to make the rest of their codices. It works great for 40k, obviously more geared for taking on other marine armies, but can try to hold there own against everyone else.

**ZebioLizard2**

Col. Dash wrote:
Low point games screw HH lists over. Mid point games and higher though are very balanced. Certainly no marine or MC player enjoys running into an all plasma toting support squad or moritat but the HH player does pay heavily for those toys which are situational(yeah plasma works great against most things but more often would a bolter.

HH is by far the most balanced army list released by GW and GW main should hire the FW designers to make the rest of their codices. It works great for 40k, obviously more geared for taking on other marine armies, but can try to hold there own against everyone else.

They even fix Dreadnoughts a bit, sure they are weaker, but now you can take three per slot!

**tuiman**

Col. Dash wrote:

HH is by far the most balanced army list released by GW and GW main should hire the FW designers to make the rest of their codices. It works great for 40k, obviously more geared for taking on other marine armies, but can try to hold there own against everyone else.

Remember though heresy armies all basically us the same army list. With a few special units per Legion and of course the primarchs. At the end of the day everyone is a Marine (mostly). 40k ranges from not just to Marines but tyranid, daemons, human guard, eldar. Every army so diverse and differ it would surely be harder to balance out? Not that im defending gw. They do make a bit of a mess with their rules but something to think about.

Also I would like to apologize for my previous postings. I was up late and very tired. Heresy can be fun and I am always open to playing forge world things. If I had the money I would probably make a herey list myself as it will b way more fun to do 30k vs 30k and the models are sweet.

**ZebioLizard2**

tuiman wrote:
Col. Dash wrote:

HH is by far the most balanced army list released by GW and GW main should hire the FW designers to make the rest of their codices. It works great for 40k, obviously more geared for taking on other marine armies, but can try to hold there own against everyone else.

Remember though heresy armies all basically us the same army list. With a few special units per Legion and of course the primarchs. At the end of the day everyone is a Marine (mostly). 40k ranges from not just to Marines but tyranid, daemons, human guard, eldar. Every army so diverse and differ it would surely be harder to balance out? Not that im defending gw. They do make a bit of a mess with their rules but something to think about.

Also I would like to apologize for my previous postings. I was up late and very tired. Heresy can be fun and I am always open to playing forge world things. If I had the money I would probably make a herey list myself as it will b way more fun to do 30k vs 30k and the models are sweet.

Don't forget the Legio Cybernetic with Tech Thralls, Castallax MC, Thrallax, Secuters, The Magos Domina, and Calebd Decima in the books.

There's also Allied Daemons with Word Bearers now as well.

With rumored rules for the Imperial Legion (aka, the IG) coming in the next book, alongside the Sisters of Silence, we should be seeing some more options beyond just marines.

**MIni MIehm**

tuiman wrote:
Col. Dash wrote:

HH is by far the most balanced army list released by GW and GW main should hire the FW designers to make the rest of their codices. It works great for 40k, obviously more geared for taking on other marine armies, but can try to hold there own against everyone else.

Remember though heresy armies all basically us the same army list. With a few special units per Legion and of course the primarchs. At the end of the day everyone is a Marine (mostly). 40k ranges from not just to Marines but tyranid, daemons, human guard, eldar. Every army so diverse and differ it would surely be harder to balance out? Not that im defending gw. They do make a bit of a mess with their rules but something to think about.

Also I would like to apologize for my previous postings. I was up late and very tired. Heresy can be fun and I am always open to playing forge world things. If I had the money I would probably make a herey list myself as it will b way more fun to do 30k vs 30k and the models are sweet.

If you can balance one list, you can balance a hundred. The problem arises when codex creep sets in. Rather than carefully dialing back things that are somewhat overpowered, they slowly ramp up the power levels on everything else to compensate. I would be willing to try 30k against Tau(and I think AdMech is the list to do it with, since it at least still exists in M41), but I have no idea if it could win the fight, since they're horriffically outranged in basic troops, and probably not really durable enough to make the walk through that barrage to get into range. 30k seems powerful on paper, but you pay for it in so many ways. Points costs for AdMech units are a bit on the high side, with a basic Thallax costing as much as a Terminator.

**kronk**

You could play them together. All of the cool stuff in the new book is super expensive in the points department.

**Furyou Miko**

If it's still a concern, the trick to killing the Moritat with grey knights is your storm bolters. Forget ignoring its save, just drown it in S5 bullets.

**ZebioLizard2**

Furyou Miko wrote:
If it's still a concern, the trick to killing the Moritat with grey knights is your storm bolters. Forget ignoring its save, just drown it in S5 bullets.

Yeah I saw this before, Moritat's are one trick ponies that if you let them roam, they'll dance on the graves of your troops in a fury of Plasma Pistol Fire like it's a John Woo movie.

They are fun if you go balls out with a destroyer squad though, load em with tricks and make it a squad the enemy has to deal with or die.