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None of the three things you mentioned have anything to do with Line of Sight. Two are modifiers that can be added to any situation that involves a cover save, including Area Terrain which grants a cover save regardless of Line of Sight. Jinx itself is well known for being a cover save that can be granted even if 100% of the model is visible, and can still be taken even in cases where no Line of Sight requirements exist because of this reason.

Barrage weapon states "can fire indirectly" it is not even a must fire indirectly. Why would I choose to use that mode if I don't need to? It doesn't say it must fire indirectly if i don't have LOS. It is an option.

That is not even getting into the why would you use any LOS rule with astral aim?

 Mythra wrote:
Barrage weapon states "can fire indirectly" it is not even a must fire indirectly. Why would I choose to use that mode if I don't need to? It doesn't say it must fire indirectly if i don't have LOS. It is an option.

Actually, after reveiwing the wording of the Barrage rules, I'll pay that one.

They don't actually say that if you don't have LOS, it fires indirectly... It says that you can fire indirectly, in which case you don't need LOS. So Astral Aim would seem to allow you to sidestep the indirect rule... instead of choosing to fire indirectly, you just fire directly with Astral Aim removing the need for LOS instead.

So... carry on. Nothing to see here...

But still poorly written rules b/c in the firing phase w/ astral aim when do I exactly stop following the rules. Like I had my purg squad in bastion w/ 2 Inq and 3 Tech marines w/ conversion beamers, when I started checking distance from the rear fire points my opponent said I couldn't do that.

If I am not using LOS why would I need to use the fire points facing the target to check distance? The difference game me a 10-1 blast.

You also run into probelms when it comes to casualty removal...

Yeah someone brought that up at the store. I have no permission to assign wounds to out of line of sight models. The store owner just shook his head no and said don't go there. That would make Astral Aim useless.

That is why I really believe you don't follow LOS rules at all with astral aim. That part is removed from the mix, but as with so many of the 40k rules they don't seem to want to clarify or even think them thru. Luckily they have a strong community that does it for them and comes up with reasonable calls in most cases.

 Mythra wrote:
Yeah someone brought that up at the store. I have no permission to assign wounds to out of line of sight models. The store owner just shook his head no and said don't go there. That would make Astral Aim useless.

That is why I really believe you don't follow LOS rules at all with astral aim. That part is removed from the mix, but as with so many of the 40k rules they don't seem to want to clarify or even think them thru. Luckily they have a strong community that does it for them and comes up with reasonable calls in most cases.

You do, though. BRB p 33, third column, first paragraph. Blast Weapons can totally wound models out of Line of Sight.

Also, Astral Aim kind of gives you permission by default.

 Jimsolo wrote:
You do, though. BRB p 33, third column, first paragraph. Blast Weapons can totally wound models out of Line of Sight.

Actually, as per the rulebook, Blast weapons can wound units out of LOS. Casualty removal fell down, though, as there was no way to actually allocate the unit's wounds to models out of LOS.

This was fixed in the FAQ, which I had completely forgotten about. So that's 2 for 2 on me this morning...

Also, Astral Aim kind of gives you permission by default.

It really doesn't. It lets you choose a target that is outside LOS. No change is made by Astral Aim to the casualty removal process. So using it for any weapon that isn't a Blast is technically a little problematic.

 insaniak wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
You do, though. BRB p 33, third column, first paragraph. Blast Weapons can totally wound models out of Line of Sight.

Actually, as per the rulebook, Blast weapons can wound units out of LOS. Casualty removal fell down, though, as there was no way to actually allocate the unit's wounds to models out of LOS.

This was fixed in the FAQ, which I had completely forgotten about. So that's 2 for 2 on me this morning...

Also, Astral Aim kind of gives you permission by default.

It really doesn't. It lets you choose a target that is outside LOS. No change is made by Astral Aim to the casualty removal process. So using it for any weapon that isn't a Blast is technically a little problematic.

So, bottom line is that Astral Aim does indeed allow a Purgation Squad to fire the missiles indirectly and inflict casualties?

Astral Aim lets them fire the missiles directly. The revised Blast rules allow them to inflict casualties.

Well then Bob's your uncle. Now I gotta debate which is better: the allocation of a Vindicare assassin, or the reduced scatter of the GK?

Yes but what if they are firing their incen, S. Bolters, and or Psycannons also? It is kinda obvious your not using any LOS rule.

It meant to be used w/ flamers and psycannons also don't forget. You couldn't assign any of those technically. It also says any weapon an attached character has is included in astral aim. Those are usually never going to be template.

Yeah, technically Astral Aim doesn't actually work when using any weapons Purgation Squad has access to. Actually, before the errata to Blasts it didn't work with any weapons. (Because of the "permission to target and hit models out of LOS is not permission to wound models out of LOS"). This is old thing and was pointed out at the start of the 6e.

So far I haven't had any opponents who have had any problems with AA working in the obvious RAI fashion, but I also haven't had any problems with getting opponents to use model WS and T in challenges instead of majority.

But strict RAW, Astral Aim is completely unusable.

Arguing the semantic definition of the RAW on forums is one thing.

Anyone who tries to argue that you can't allocate any wounds using an Astral Aim attack is right up there with people who claim that Mephiston's strength boosting psychic power lasts forever, and probably aren't worth playing.

Quick question on the outer bunkers (inlcluding the missile silo): Do they have fire points? The book says as per model.

 Falco wrote:
Quick question on the outer bunkers (inlcluding the missile silo): Do they have fire points? The book says as per model.

Nope! The hallway has some fire points, but those are the only fire points on the whole damn building.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Falco wrote:
Quick question on the outer bunkers (inlcluding the missile silo): Do they have fire points? The book says as per model.

Nope! The hallway has some fire points, but those are the only fire points on the whole damn building.

Thats silly. Guess you could house rule it if you really wanted too.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Anyone who tries to argue that you can't allocate any wounds using an Astral Aim attack is right up there with people who claim that Mephiston's strength boosting psychic power lasts forever, and probably aren't worth playing.

Nobody was doing that. It was just pointed out as a curio in the current rules.

 insaniak wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Anyone who tries to argue that you can't allocate any wounds using an Astral Aim attack is right up there with people who claim that Mephiston's strength boosting psychic power lasts forever, and probably aren't worth playing.

Nobody was doing that. It was just pointed out as a curio in the current rules.

Oh, I didn't think you were. Sorry if it read that way.