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 legoburner wrote:
Nobody posted this yet?

Is that a rhino?

Is that a Wall?

Is that a barrel?

NO! It's RhinoWall to the rescue! lol

Now I ask ... would this be MFA? I glued the upright as far back on the base as I could so that the base was as close to plumb to the doors on the Thunder Guppy as I could get.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
Now I ask ... would this be MFA?

I don't see a situation where the stem's position on the base makes a difference. If you're measuring to the aircraft, it's irrelevant, and if you're measuring to the base, it's irrelevant. I'm not super familiar with flyer rules but I don't think it comes into play, does it? In truth I think for a front-heavy resin flyer you would kind of need to put it where you did to help better prevent tipping.

 Hansisaf wrote:
I think the problem is simple here: You can only guess at someone else's purpose...

The question was 'what is MFA?'... not 'How do you determine if someone is modelling for advantage?'

 BlackTalos wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
The test for MFA is simple: would you be willing to count the model as being the standard size/shape if it ever gives you an advantage?

I'd go by this for MFA... Although 1 good example for MFA is how flyers usually angle at 2 angles whether the base is forwards or backwards. Which one is stock? no one knows. Is one of them MFA? I doubt it, but there's definitely one with an advantage =P

This is a good example. The other guy in this very thread, and another thread in this forum section, who flat out said he would call MFA because of something as small as a model having a different number of rivets. A person could also claim that the model is "supposed to be" in the nose down position and cry MFA because the nose is up before the the models are even deployed saying that a situation might arise where the nose being up could mess with LOS during a game. what would be the REAL reason the player would cry this? Might it be because they dont want to play against vendettas? NAH! COULDNT be THAT.

Insaniak, you are correct, without the issue being addressed, there are no official rulings on it. Makes me glad that I no longer play on the "national circuit' and only play regional in my old age. No having to worry about TFG docking me points purely to boost his own because I 'bought into" the hobby and find conversions for aesthetics and coolness without caring about advantages or disadvantages. My ADL that might have a different number of rivets will not cost me points.
I only brought the question up to guage and see what kind of answers I would get here. Looks like a mixed bag so far.

 legoburner wrote:
Nobody posted this yet?

What is that Apart from an abomination i mean.

Whaen it comes to MFA i follow 2 rules:

Rule 1, The Rule of Cool-if its modeled to look awsome, like a captain posing on the corpse of a vanquished foe, a soldier bracing themself to fire, etc, then its good with me, unless

Rule 2, Obvious MFA is Obvious-if it is clearly a model that has been posed or constructed to take advantage of something then its a no-go with me, eg: SMs with HW posed on massive pillars of rock, Dreads with lengthened legs, cannons on huge mounds, Bastions with 2 foot footprints and massive spires, etc....

Thats how i generally play it. If a model has been MFA it will be obvious by just glancing at it. Models that are actually MFA are really few and far between
I dont believe in crying MFA against an opponent just because
1. I dont want to face something they have in their list and want an unfair advtage over them.
2. I want to cry it just to cry it in order to have an excuse to dock them points for sportsmanship in order to artificially adjust the overal end score of the tourney at the end in my favor.
Both of these seem to be the main reasons people cry MFA 99% of the time with the actual conversion being irrelevant.

Asking what constitutes MFA is like asking what came first the chicken or the Egg. Somebody could Model there Wraithknight, to be taking a Knee, and some one would call MFA. as it is not in the stock pose, Stock pose being the one that is made by not cutting off the male connection peices when assembling the legs and feet etc. Same goes for the Riptide. I have seen some mounting so they look as if they are using the jump jets, and this makes the model slightly higher. Most of us wil be hey it looks cool. But some will scream MFA.

Then you have models like the one I just painted, Lugft Huron. Who stands on a large Rock, raising his eye level if you like by 16mm. But is that not MFA because the rock comes in the forge world blisterpack?

I Have 20k's worth of pre heresy world eaters. If i use them as normal chaos marines or space marines. Am I modeling for advantage because the marines are larger than 40k ones, and the terminators dwarf 40k terminators?

I dont think MFA can ever hav a clear answer, Like that rhino posted earlier. Some things are stupidly obvious. But I have seen people call MFA on what was obviously modeled to look good, so there is no real way to say "THIS IS MFA, THIS IS NOT" because like most of the rules in the game, people read into it differently.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Thats how i generally play it. If a model has been MFA it will be obvious by just glancing at it. Models that are actually MFA are really few and far between
I dont believe in crying MFA against an opponent just because
1. I dont want to face something they have in their list and want an unfair advtage over them.
2. I want to cry it just to cry it in order to have an excuse to dock them points for sportsmanship in order to artificially adjust the overal end score of the tourney at the end in my favor.
Both of these seem to be the main reasons people cry MFA 99% of the time with the actual conversion being irrelevant.

I've never personally encountered either reason for "crying MFA". Granted I don't convert anything so it never comes up against me. But I have encountered:

Guardsmen with walls on their bases and periscopes claiming no one could seem them but they could see you (start of 5th that happened).

Wraithlord's glued flat to their bellies.

Being called an idiot for not putting my Psyrifle dreads on scenic bases.

Ghazzy mounted on a dread base and disembarking with the back of that base 2" from a transport (again in 5th).

Likewise I've seen some model their Wraithlord kneeling with flamers. Posed to look like he was burning stuff, and I happen to know this model was built before the guy in question knew the rules so I know it wasn't MFA. Granted if I came across thatin a casual game I'd be suspicious and in a Tournament I would cry MFA unless my opponent was willing to use the model as if it was stock.

Likewise you have people posting that they are changing a model specifically to get an in game advantage and calling everyone TFG when they point out that is the definition of MFA. Like the Grot Aegis thread.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
Thats how i generally play it. If a model has been MFA it will be obvious by just glancing at it. Models that are actually MFA are really few and far between
I dont believe in crying MFA against an opponent just because
1. I dont want to face something they have in their list and want an unfair advtage over them.
2. I want to cry it just to cry it in order to have an excuse to dock them points for sportsmanship in order to artificially adjust the overal end score of the tourney at the end in my favor.
Both of these seem to be the main reasons people cry MFA 99% of the time with the actual conversion being irrelevant.

I've never personally encountered either reason for "crying MFA". Granted I don't convert anything so it never comes up against me. But I have encountered:

Guardsmen with walls on their bases and periscopes claiming no one could seem them but they could see you (start of 5th that happened).

Wraithlord's glued flat to their bellies.

Being called an idiot for not putting my Psyrifle dreads on scenic bases.

Ghazzy mounted on a dread base and disembarking with the back of that base 2" from a transport (again in 5th).

Likewise I've seen some model their Wraithlord kneeling with flamers. Posed to look like he was burning stuff, and I happen to know this model was built before the guy in question knew the rules so I know it wasn't MFA. Granted if I came across thatin a casual game I'd be suspicious and in a Tournament I would cry MFA unless my opponent was willing to use the model as if it was stock.

Likewise you have people posting that they are changing a model specifically to get an in game advantage and calling everyone TFG when they point out that is the definition of MFA. Like the Grot Aegis thread.

likewise, I HAVE seen people cry MFA for those very reasons.
I have also seen the urban legends of periscop guard, crawling wraithlords posted online. Never "in person.
i have seen players put models on termy bases in order to make them look more impressive and have them stand out from the rest of their army, dread base, ..only dreads and daemon princes. scenic bases for dreads... They sell them and I have seen players use them. The rise is so slight that it has no actual effect in game and it makes the model look cooler so I dont care..

I'm not saying that those MFA examples have no existed. i'm saying that as with most urban legends, they happen and someone complains about it or goes online or posts a picture. Then everyone acoss the country has encountered or se it so that someone hearing about it is given the impression that there is one in every hamlet. There are a few players who go to those extremes however, they are the small percentage of people who actually convert for advantage and fall under the catagory of being obvious at first glance because in order for it to actually give an advantage that is intended and game effecting, it will have to be extreme enough to attract attention.

LOL, now I'm TFG because I kitbashed an inquisitor out of spare marine parts, a chaos marauder head and a crystal I centered on his chest. ookkkk.

 EVIL INC wrote:
The other guy in this very thread, and another thread in this forum section, who flat out said he would call MFA because of something as small as a model having a different number of rivets.

That's a lie. Stop repeating it please.

OP I really do think you are looking for something to rage against here.

The first response given in this thread is pretty much spot on and answers a simple question. anything else on this subject could be better off in discussions.

Which seems an appropriate place to leave this then.