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I'll see what I can do.

 Tanakosyke22 wrote:

 Talamare wrote:
Not to mention in a full religious army, you can have more orders without a Lt than with one

(tho they would be mostly irregular orders)

I thought that loss of Lieutenant gave two orders, and then you spend those two that turn to elect a new Lieutenant? (This is not including Religious troops, which can also give their orders to elect a new lieutenant as well I believe).

LOL gives you 2 orders that can be spent however you want.
Religious Troops keep their orders while in a LOL
If your entire army is Religious then you will have an order for each soldier +2
While the normal situation is order for each soldier +1 (LT order)

The downside is that each Religious unit will only be able to spend their order on themselves, which basically means your entire army has turned irregular with 2 regular orders (which is pretty difficult to play with, but not impossible, and even more difficult to use it as an advantage over the normal regular order system)

Can someone also go through a Face To Face shoot out with the following results:

1) Active player w/ BS12 B4 weapon gets: 11, 8, 6 2

2) ARO player w/ BS12 B4 weapon (total reaction!) gets: 10, 7, 5, 1

How many hits are scored, and by whom?

I think I know the right way to play it, but now, this thread has me doubting myself on nearly everything!

Thanks!

I could be wrong, but I believe only the 11 hits and the others are negated by the reactive 10. So one hit lands on the reactive player.

 Alpharius wrote:
Can someone also go through a Face To Face shoot out with the following results:

1) Active player w/ BS12 B4 weapon gets: 11, 8, 6 2

2) ARO player w/ BS12 B4 weapon (total reaction!) gets: 10, 7, 5, 1

How many hits are scored, and by whom?

I think I know the right way to play it, but now, this thread has me doubting myself on nearly everything!

Thanks!

Active player scores a hit on the 11, everything else is cancelled by the ARO's player 10.

Not to step on IJW’s toes, but here are a couple examples with dodging (hopefully I have them right!):

Example 1: Reactive Dodging
Situation: Active player has a model behind a wall and wants to shoot at an enemy model, but does not have line of fire (the wall is in the way). He can gain line of fire by moving the model to the corner of the wall.

How it plays out:

1) Active Player: spends an order and declares the short movement skill “move” and indicates that he will move to the corner of the wall. This creates line of fire between the active model and one of the reactive player’s models.

Note that the active player has only declared one short order. How this is normally played is the player will say “This model is doing x, any reactions?” (in this case x is moving to the corner). If any of the reactive players models can draw line of fire to the active model at any point during this first short order they are granted an ARO, which they must now declare.

2) Reactive player: As he can draw line of fire to model activated by an order (he can see the model when it gets to the corner) he has an ARO, and must declare it now. He doesn’t like the odds in a fire fight, so decides to dodge behind better cover instead. Reactive player declares “This model will dodge in y direction”. The reactive player must indicate where the reactive model will dodge to. Dodge in ARO grants a movement of half a unit’s first mov value, if successful.

3) Active player: As the active player has used one short movement skill of an order he can now choose either a second short movement skill, or a short skill. His model has line of fire to an enemy model that he knows has chosen to dodge. Believing he still has the advantage he declares that he will shoot at the dodging enemy model (a short skill).

As the active player’s shots are being opposed by a dodge, a face-to-face roll will now take place. The active model uses their BS value and any modifiers (range, cover, etc) against the reactive models PH value (for dodge). I won’t go into the mechanics of a face-to-face roll, but here are some possible outcomes:

-the dodging model succeeded in his PH roll and beat all of the active model’s BS rolls (or all of the active models BS rolls were unsuccessful). He may now move half his first mov value in the direction he indicated when he declared his ARO.

-the dodging models failed his PH roll, but the active model also failed all of his BS rolls. Dodging model does not move (he failed his roll), no ARM rolls (for damage) are taken as all the shots missed.

-the dodging model failed his PH roll, active player has at least one successful BS roll. Dodging model does not move (his failed his roll), takes ARM rolls for each successful shot (or auto wounded on a crit).

-the dodging model succeeds in his PH roll, but is outrolled by successful BS rolls. The dodging model does not move (his roll was beaten), takes ARM rolls for each successful BS roll that beat his PH roll.

As you can see, the only time the dodging model moves is when he wins the face-to-face roll with a successful PH roll.


Now, let’s go back to step 3 and try something else:

3b) Active player: Knowing that the enemy model is dodging, he decides to just keep on moving, as his model isn’t being shot at, so he should be safe. The active player declares “move” and indicates where he is going.

The active player now moves his model. The reactive player can now make a normal PH roll for his dodge, as he is not being opposed by the active player. If he succeeds he moves his model as he indicated when he declared the dodge. If he fails he goes nowhere.

Example 2: Active turn dodging.
Situation: The active player needs to get his model across a wide gap, but an enemy sniper has line of fire. With modifiers the active player knows his model can’t outshoot the sniper.

How it plays out:

1) Active Player: spends an order and declares the short movement skill “move” and indicates that he will move across a wide gap (but his first mov value isn’t enough to take him all the way across).

2) Reactive player: As he can draw line of fire to model activated by an order he has an ARO, and must declare it now. His sniper has the advantage in a firefight, so he declares a BS attack ARO, picking the spot during that first movement where he would like to shoot the active model

3) Active player: As the active player has used one short movement skill of an order he can now choose either a second short movement skill, or a short skill. The player knows he will lose a firefight, and the reactive player has already declared BS attack, so decides to try to save his model by declaring “dodge”. A dodge in the active turn allows no additional movement, but may allow the active player to avoid getting shot if he succeeds.

A face-to-face roll ensues. The active model makes a PH roll (for dodge) while the reactive model is making a BS roll (for shooting). Here are some possible outcomes:

-Dodging (active) model fails his PH, shooting (reactive) model passes his BS roll. Dodging model takes a hit and makes an ARM roll for damage.

- Dodging (active) model fails his PH roll, shooting (reactive) model fails his BS roll. Nothing happens.

-Dodging (active) model passes his PH roll, shooting (reactive) model fails his BS roll. Nothing happens.

-Dodging (active) model passes his PH roll, but the shooting (reactive) model outrolls him with a successful BS roll. Dodging model takes a hit and makes an ARM roll for damage.

-Dodging (active) model passes his PH roll and outrolls the shooting (reactive) model’s successful BS roll. Nothing happens, though he would have taken a hit if he hadn't dodged.

So, you can see that either nothing happens, or the active model takes a hit. The active model only got to move his first mov value for the first short order. No additional movement was granted by declaring dodge in the active turn.


Hopefully this was helpful, please let me know if anything is unclear.

Looks good to me.

Minor correction in the second one, in 2) the sniper doesn't say when during the move the shot is being taken, that's done after all skills have been declared.

Most of the time it doesn't matter but if the active model had moved in cover behind a low wall during the first move (in sight) and then crossed a gap with a second short move (still in sight) the sniper would get to fire when the model was out of cover.

Played a game after applying everything I learned and it went much more smoothly. It's amazing how much better model survive with a few rule corrections

 bdix wrote:
Played a game after applying everything I learned and it went much more smoothly. It's amazing how much better model survive with a few rule corrections

And proper facing. Remember, your guys are doing nothing when staring at a wall.

A couple more questions:

-how do adhesive launchers work? If I hit them with it, they are just immobilized until an engineer fixes them? What if I hit their engineer with it, then use my other 4 AL to disable his entire army? Is it just game over? My question also goes to flash grenades... It seems like you could just cycle disabling your opponents entire army the whole game.

-Can someone explain linked troops to me? I looked it up and I don't see the full benefit yet.

 bdix wrote:
A couple more questions:

-how do adhesive launchers work? If I hit them with it, they are just immobilized until an engineer fixes them? What if I hit their engineer with it, then use my other 4 AL to disable his entire army? Is it just game over? My question also goes to flash grenades... It seems like you could just cycle disabling your opponents entire army the whole game.

-Can someone explain linked troops to me? I looked it up and I don't see the full benefit yet.

If they are hit they take a PH roll with a -6 modifier. If they fail they get immobilised. They are still able to perform a select few actions, so it's not like they're unconscious, but in most cases they might as well be. I don't think it's an auto-game over, though. The chances of that happening (and this also applies to the flash grenades) is pretty unlikely though. The number of FTF rolls you'd need to win without being killed is huge.

Members of link teams grant bonuses to other members of the team. With three members you're laying down an extra shot per order, which also applies to the reactive turn. So you've got a better chance of winning the FTF roll, or at least minimising the number of shots that get through. With four members you get Sixth Sense L2, which makes it difficult to attack the team without taking return fire. Both combat camo attacks and and Low-vis zones lose their first strike ability. Five members gives +3 BS (or PH if that's what they're using to attack). And all of those apply in the reactive turn as well, and to all members. Plus you activate them all with one order, which makes them very efficient with orders.

I guess they can choose which member to shoot at? How does dodge and return fire work in that situation? Only the figure being shot at takes a dodge roll, or they all take a dodge roll? Also, do they all get AROs with +1 burst and +3bs? If so, that seems really really really good.

 bdix wrote:
I guess they can choose which member to shoot at? How does dodge and return fire work in that situation? Only the figure being shot at takes a dodge roll, or they all take a dodge roll? Also, do they all get AROs with +1 burst and +3bs? If so, that seems really really really good.

The whole team provokes one ARO per enemy, like a coordinated order. Team members that react need to perform the same action. So not all of them need to react, but those that do need to dodge or leave the team. And yes, the bonuses apply in the reactive turn, and to all members.

Oh duh, I was thinking about dodging in ARO and it didn't make sense. I get it now. Since you have to do the same action, dodging in active turn would have to be done by all members. Thanks! I have a feeling this is going to be brutal against the guy I play...until he figures out how to deal with it!

For his information, this is how.