Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just sent my version of a dreadnought codex supplement to GW, I don't expect a response but it was fun to do anyway.

Dreadnought HQ would be a Venerable Dreadnought with boosted stats and a matching points value. For some extra character, you could allow him to join a squad in exchange for some special rules. Personally, I would like a Venerable Dreadnought to give Slow and Purposeful to any squad it joins that doesn't already have the Relentless special rule. Specifically, I'd love to place a Dreadnought HQ in a Devastator Squad to allow them to move and shoot with their normal Ballistic Skill. I think it's reasonable to suppose that a squad joining a Dreadnought would have the limitations imposed by Slow and Purposeful given how difficult it would be to fight alongside such a large machine. At the same time, the Dreadnought's steady pace and targeting systems could be used to aide its fellows while on the move.An HQ Venerable Dreadnought's stats might look like the following:UnitWSBSSFront AVSide AVRear AVHPIALdVenerable Dreadnought (HQ)55613121034310Special Rules: Venerable, Independent Character (can be independently targeted, doesn't benefit from Look Out, Sir!), Slow and Purposeful (if it joins a non-Relentless squad), Shield Generator (5+ invulnerable save).Some of the above stats and rules were inspired by those of Bjorn the Fell-Handed and Forge World's Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought. Now we have to determine an appropriate points cost. The C:SM Venerable Dreadnought currently has a base cost of 165 points while Bjorn comes in at a mind-boggling 270 points. The Venerable's cost in 5th Edition was based mostly on the durability of the Venerable rule while Bjorn has a higher front armor value and a variety of special rules, including the Venerable rule and a 5+ invulnerable save. However, the introduction of hull points in 6th Edition has significantly decreased the value of the Venerable rule. This is reflected in the 6th Edition Dark Angels codex, which charges a mere 125 points for a Venerable Dreadnought. While I previously suggested changes that could justify the Venerable's cost in 6th Edition, I expect the upcoming edition of C:SM to follow the example of CA and drastically lower the cost. A 20 point premium for WS5, BS5, and the ability to re-roll on the damage table (especially if you take a hit from an AP1 weapon) seems pretty fair to me.The Contemptor Dreadnought costs 175 points. Although it has a lower ballistic skill and less attacks than my proposed HQ Venerable, it also has a rear armor value of 11, S7, and Fleet. (These are all based on the experimental rules still found on Forge World's website.) Even with these benefits, the Contemptor seems overpriced given the relative vulnerability of walkers in 6th Edition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, .... Bjorn the Fell Handed is a HQ Dreadnought, and has a 5+ Invulnerable Save, with Armour 13.

I always figured that Death Company Dreadnoughts came about because Dreadnoughts fell into the Black Rage, not because someone in the grips of the Black Rage was put into a Dreadnought.

Also, the Emperor did not have Gene Seed. >< He was human, not Primarch.

I didn't read past the OP but there are HQ dreads on both sides. The Violators chaos renegade chapter is led by a dreadnought. The Salamanders have two Dreadnought HQs and one I believe is a captain, the Night Lords have one in the fluff, Space Wolves have one. Only issue is there are only rules for the SW and Salamander ones.

Im pretty sure dreadnoughts arent in nearly as good shape mentally as they were before their ascension to dread hood, which would definitely hinder their leadership capabilities.
But that could just be the Dawn of war talking.

The thing with Dreadnoughts is that they are so old that they lose their sense of time. Time is a relative thing so the longer you life the quicker time passes. That could hinder them as events would pass in a flash.

This is why they sleep for so long, so then they are mentally fresh when they wake up. But in many year long crusades, I doubt they would be able to hold it together long enough.

A bit like Daemon Princes really, once you live forever life kind of gets boring.

That's actually a really good point

 Archer wrote:
I am not sure a lot of the game makes any sense. Just gives out enough for us to populate these threads with speculation and conjecture.

It would be pretty hard to not step on another Chapters toes as there are meant to be about a thousand of them and there are only so many variations you can make with Assault, Devastator and Tactical squads....

So true. Somehow in 10K plus years the Imperium hasn't figured out how to retrofit (or designed properly in the first place) rhino doors to be wide enough for terminators to go through.

'somehow'... you know, the Rhino is a repurposed exploratory vehicle designed for people in regular clothes, right? And that redesigning it for terminators would require redesigning the whole vehicle?

Rumbleguts wrote:

 Archer wrote:
I am not sure a lot of the game makes any sense. Just gives out enough for us to populate these threads with speculation and conjecture.

It would be pretty hard to not step on another Chapters toes as there are meant to be about a thousand of them and there are only so many variations you can make with Assault, Devastator and Tactical squads....

So true. Somehow in 10K plus years the Imperium hasn't figured out how to retrofit (or designed properly in the first place) rhino doors to be wide enough for terminators to go through.

Or that in ten thousand years no one thought to start learning how to make terminator armor again.
Seriously guys, you had ten thousand years.

I thought GW retconned that so that Terminator Armour is make-able now by the Imperium. Just really hard to make. Or was it only Dreadnoughts that got that treatment?

Terminator armor can still be made, just in small numbers, hence why most chapters are unable to field their entire 1st Company in the stuff.

Anyway, the real issue I have with Dreadnoughts is that, apparently, any old chump of a Space Marine gets tossed into them. If Dreadnoughts are supposed to be great heroes, then why aren't their stats more like a Captain's statline instead of a Tactical Marine?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Terminator armor can still be made, just in small numbers, hence why most chapters are unable to field their entire 1st Company in the stuff.

Anyway, the real issue I have with Dreadnoughts is that, apparently, any old chump of a Space Marine gets tossed into them. If Dreadnoughts are supposed to be great heroes, then why aren't their stats more like a Captain's statline instead of a Tactical Marine?

I would assume that all that machinery weighs them down in both mind and body. The same reason Ws is reduced with power fists.
But also, there are different tiers of dreads (venerable, normal).
Just my thoughts

Well... Think about it... Dreadnought are massive, walking, armoured sarcophagi. And as mentioned go bat crazy over time, need to be put in a semi-cryo statis when not fighting, can't exactly dodge massive, insta-killing weaponry and have some major disadvantages. They are also extremely slow (not including BA dreads with wings) and would take a while to be put into action.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Terminator armor can still be made, just in small numbers, hence why most chapters are unable to field their entire 1st Company in the stuff.

Anyway, the real issue I have with Dreadnoughts is that, apparently, any old chump of a Space Marine gets tossed into them. If Dreadnoughts are supposed to be great heroes, then why aren't their stats more like a Captain's statline instead of a Tactical Marine?

Because the the machine is doing all of the physical work.

If you stuck Stickly McBirdchesterson inside a Dread sarcophagi, he'd be able to tear tanks apart, too, because the machinery of the Dread doesn't care how strong its pilot was in its former life.

Likewise, you might have been tough-as-nails before your internment in the Dread... but now you got a whole bunch of ancient machines keeping you alive. If one of those, like the one that keeps air pumping into your lungs, takes a hit.... well, you're now a casualty, even if you could take three to the chest as a man of flesh and keep on fighting. The machine is both a strength and a weakness.

Actually that's not true, its the persons strength of will that drives a dreadnought so someone with more will power can drive it harder and better than one with little strength.

Probably because you don't want someone with that kinda luck leading your army. Think about it. If it wasn't for their twisted technology. He'd be dead.

In the US Military. We give Purple Hearts to those who are wounded in combat. We award them for getting shot. If you think about it. The PH is an Enemy Marksmanship award.
You zigged, when you should have zagged.

A dreadnought is the unfortunate soul that got so messed up in a battle their had to inter their crippled mangled, whatever is left body into a technological terror machine. Mind you, you're only woken up every other century or so when the battle is expected to be hard.

If they were HQs in real life they would be expected to plan, train and supervise rehearsals of all missions. I don't think Dreadnoughts have that type of time available.

Nevzara wrote:
Actually that's not true, its the persons strength of will that drives a dreadnought so someone with more will power can drive it harder and better than one with little strength.

Or so they say. It's a machine. It's not a psychically-piloted EVA.

Nevzara wrote:
So why do you think GW hast released a dreadnought HQ option? (Note I said GW not forgeworld)

I know this is the background forum, but I feel like this question is easily answered through the simple fact that dreadnoughts are incredibly easy to take down. 1st round I would get 2 instant VP's (3 by the end of the game if it's Bjorn) simply because I killed him (1st blood, Slay the Warlord).

With the current meta, HQs are very easy to hide behind ADL's, attach to powerful/tough units, hide in flyers, etc. without risking a turn 1 slain Warlord. While I know it's not exactly in GWs interest to care about rules balance, I feel like they -might- be aware that it would be a silly decision, especially since everyone and their grandmother can get 3 dreads anyway if they really want the models in their army.

Sorry I know this thread is a month old but thought it better than starting a completely new one. I've got two Dread questions.

1) The Lex claims through an IA source that Dread technology is lost so no more can be made. Does this mean younger chapters with Dreads are non-canon? Or are 'dead' Dread suits scavenged and then somehow sold off to other chapters?

2) Now actual rule limitations aside, If a Chapter Master were to suffer mortal injuries would be considered acceptable to mount them in a Dread suit and continue their duties, at least for a short period (finishing off a campaign etc.)?

1) when a new chapter is created equipment and trainers can be pledged to them by older chapters.

2) Sounds plausible. There are examples of characters in dreadnoughts holding positions of office in the fluff, but these are very rare instances that happen only a few times over the 10k years in the 1000 chapters that exist at any one time.

And such characters tend to retire to advisory roles rather than maintaining their position. For example, Bjorn the Fell Handed was Great Wolf, got encased in a dreadnought and has served the Space Wolves since, but Logan Grimnar is the current Great Wolf.

2) Now actual rule limitations aside, If a Chapter Master were to suffer mortal injuries would be considered acceptable to mount them in a Dread suit and continue their duties, at least for a short period (finishing off a campaign etc.)?

This is supposedly how Angelos is still around to run the BR, isn't it?

I never finished DOW2 as the BR, I always played the Freebootas, and Angelos gets smashed to a bloody ruin in the ending there.

Something about being interred in a dreadnought sarcophagus disconnects the often recently-mortally-broken-to-begin-with pilot from reality. Bjorn and Ash and their unusually lucid connection with current events notwithstanding, dreadnought pilots voluntarily take back-seat roles in their respective chapters so they don't suffer from a bout of cognitive temporal dissonance and accidentally sent off a fleet to fight a war that is long over or killed someone because they thought they were a foe long since passed to dust.

They are valuable sources of such lore from battles long past, just a little shaky on what constitutes the here-and-now.

 Furyou Miko wrote:


Also, the Emperor did not have Gene Seed. >< He was human, not Primarch.

I just noticed this. The Emperor didn't have a gene seed as such but he has DNA. The same way he made gene seeds from the Primarch DNA he did with himself to create the Grey Knights, or so it is said.

Wasn't there a white dwarf army list that allowed for an all-dread force? It was something like 'conclave of ancients' before Apoc, and I think it was built around an Ultramarines story where only dreads are left to fight a certain battle.

Anyone else remember that?

This?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod2160204a

Nevzara wrote:
I only ask because I'd love to play an army consisting entirely of dreads; bigass HQ dreads, stock standard dreads in units if three for troops, smaller 'intersepter' dreads with deul heavy flamers for fast stack and massive lascannon wielding, whirlwind missile launching tank destroying dreads for heavy support.

If you are interested in an army fully dreads then why not check out the proposed rules section? I am sure someone has written up something for that.
If not just write something out and post it on there and see what people think and try and balance out the points and equiptment and rules for it. As long as you are playing a friendly game and telling your opponent beforehand they shouldn't have a problem.

As for all the fluff stuff I haven't read to much into the dreadnought fluff but some of the stuff people are referencing is pretty interesting!

 Psienesis wrote:

2) Now actual rule limitations aside, If a Chapter Master were to suffer mortal injuries would be considered acceptable to mount them in a Dread suit and continue their duties, at least for a short period (finishing off a campaign etc.)?

This is supposedly how Angelos is still around to run the BR, isn't it?

I never finished DOW2 as the BR, I always played the Freebootas, and Angelos gets smashed to a bloody ruin in the ending there.

In the BR ending (Which is the canon one) he gets some bionic parts but is otherwise restored.

They kind of suffer from fact you wake them up hundreds of years apart, for them 500 years Is a blink of the eye.

If there on 24\7 the strain of running the dread gets to them, not sure where I read it but that it take a lot of effort to run the system