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Very few wounds. Point is, he's doing...this list. one way or another, its gonna be assaulty.

So you can go assaulty without Corbulo...or with. And let me tell ya. WITH is better.

Corbulo is one of the few things left in the BA codex that could be mistaken for "good", I'll agree there.

Space Marines generally shouldn't be assaulting. What kills them is the dreaded number 4. I4, S4, T4.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Space Marines generally shouldn't be assaulting. What kills them is the dreaded number 4. I4, S4, T4.

I'm forced to agree with this, even though I play BA and this concept is very unfluffy.

Martel732 wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Space Marines generally shouldn't be assaulting. What kills them is the dreaded number 4. I4, S4, T4.

I'm forced to agree with this, even though I play BA and this concept is very unfluffy.

I am a Space Wolf Player and I believe such except for some special Cases [TWC Cavalry]. I am constantly saying that Space Wolves are not an Assault Army. They are a Mid-Ranged Shooty Army with superior Counter-Assault ability.

Well. I'm playing Night Lords right now. Really Assaulty Works good.

I'm not a competitive player by any means, but I like Honor Guard, and here is why.

They come with Artificer Armour, which confers a nice 2+, they get free choice of power weapons, meaning swords, axes, mauls, as you see fit, and the Company Champion is great for dealing with pesky duels. I think he can also grab a combat shield for a small invul.

I have been messing around with this...

4x Honor Guard, 2 with sword, 2 with axes
1x Captain with some kind of decent weapon
1x Chapter Master, with a Power Axe and Shield Eternal

I put them in a Razorback because I'm poor, and I zip them up the field asap. I jump them out and attack pretty much anything I want. They do take considerable fire from anyone who knows what they'll do in melee, and the 2+ isn't always enough, but consider this... An Iron Hands CM can regen wounds, and with the SE he can take a LOT of punishment. I always try to have him out front tanking shots, it's not unusual for him to hover around 2-3 wounds all game.

The only thing you have to watch out for with the HG is their lack of an invul safe so you'll want some way to protect them while they're in transit, like sticking to cover (but sometimes that's just not there!) or using a heavier transport for them like a Stormraven.

That's my take on my so far favourite CC unit, mind you... haha I made my HG out of bits too so after awhile I may end up gluing jump packs on them and calling them Vanguard!

So, I've decided that -based on popular opinion- my half-built Honour Guard squad will live to be more than just a pretty/dusty unit on a shelf.

I'm also going to go ahead and make a Grav-gun Biker command squad.... I am, however, going to kit them out with storm shields and Power Weapons.
Despite being perhaps an unnecessary sinking of points, I've got some DA and BA bitz i want to use on them as a bit of a conversion project.

I've got a Vanguard Veteran box which was a present, and it seems a shame to waste and awesome lookin' unit with bog-standard gear.
I might tool them up and make them pretty, and make some DIY vanguard for practical purposes .....

I've got over 30 assault marines inherited from a friends BA force, so I'd be interest to hear what some of you might do with what -for me at least- is an excessive amount of Assault Marines?

also, opinions on melee scouts? I quite like the idea of charging a horde of scouts at the enemy ... if only for Sh*ts n giggles or a cheap distraction


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkcloak wrote:
I'm not a competitive player by any means, but I like Honor Guard, and here is why.

They come with Artificer Armour, which confers a nice 2+, they get free choice of power weapons, meaning swords, axes, mauls, as you see fit, and the Company Champion is great for dealing with pesky duels. I think he can also grab a combat shield for a small invul.

I have been messing around with this...

4x Honor Guard, 2 with sword, 2 with axes
1x Captain with some kind of decent weapon
1x Chapter Master, with a Power Axe and Shield Eternal

I put them in a Razorback because I'm poor, and I zip them up the field asap. I jump them out and attack pretty much anything I want. They do take considerable fire from anyone who knows what they'll do in melee, and the 2+ isn't always enough, but consider this... An Iron Hands CM can regen wounds, and with the SE he can take a LOT of punishment. I always try to have him out front tanking shots, it's not unusual for him to hover around 2-3 wounds all game.

The only thing you have to watch out for with the HG is their lack of an invul safe so you'll want some way to protect them while they're in transit, like sticking to cover (but sometimes that's just not there!) or using a heavier transport for them like a Stormraven.

That's my take on my so far favourite CC unit, mind you... haha I made my HG out of bits too so after awhile I may end up gluing jump packs on them and calling them Vanguard!

This is pretty much how i imagined gearing/using my honour guard ~8

Capt-Crapulence wrote:

I've been thinking about a 5x Relic blade Vanguard unit,

I thought only the Sgt can take a Relic blade.

 Dancingwolf91 wrote:

Capt-Crapulence wrote:

I've been thinking about a 5x Relic blade Vanguard unit,

I thought only the Sgt can take a Relic blade.

you may be right there ... i haven't got the codex to hand

I wasn't being mean or anything, I just wasn't sure

Only the sergeant can take a relic blade. But it's a meh weapon anyway.

Mellee scouts are actually possible.

Landspeeder storm with a feavy flamer
+ small number of scouts with ccw+bolt pistol or with shotguns.
Sergeant with some sort of a combi-weapon or a melta-bomb. Depending on what you want them to be. It all costs around 100 pts and is pretty effective with infiltrate and scout usr.

Assault marines are usable but if you want to fly with them across the map - the only time they can be on par with bikers is when there's alot of high blos buildings so they can land on the roof and be not visible from the ground. Or you could use them as a flamer-drop either with a drop pod or with deepstriking via jump-pack.

 koooaei wrote:
Mellee scouts are actually possible.

Landspeeder storm with a feavy flamer
+ small number of scouts with ccw+bolt pistol or with shotguns.
Sergeant with some sort of a combi-weapon or a melta-bomb. Depending on what you want them to be. It all costs around 100 pts and is pretty effective with infiltrate and scout usr.

The Land Speeder doesn't get Infiltrate though, only Scout.

The land Speeder gets infiltrate as long as the scouts are deployed inside of it.

Huh, so they can. Consider me corrected.

I don't think they could in the old codex since they were not a dedicated transport (or maybe that's a 5th ed holdover).

 Crantor wrote:
You'l likely get shot up but hoepefully stealth on turn one in cover will mitigate some of it.

Raven Guard Chapter Traits do not give stealth to jump pack units.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 Feasible wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Why do you care about killing an HQ anyway? Except maybe a buffmander? It's not like librarians or biker chapter masters are taking over the world.

Victory Points: First Blood, Slay the Warlord and if they are still alive Line Breaker.

It sounds great but they die lie regular marines. Marines in Double Tap range will kill 2 alone....

I was taling about the 5x Storm Shield Unit. All you got to do is survive one turn of shooting, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
For the Srhike one, I don't know yet. I have not tried it yet.

I was talking about the Vanguard Vets too... surviving one turn of shooting isn't very easy when you need to hit the squad with 45 bolter shots to completely destroy it.

Or pepper them with grav and spoiling assault them with bikers.

You both are assuming that I would Be Stupid Enough to place them in a Place where every unit in your Backfield can shoot at them and that they will show up on trun 2 when everything should be still in good shape.Think about them showing on Turn 3-4 behined a building or other blocking terrain about 18" from my intended target.

 Anpu42 wrote:
You both are assuming that I would Be Stupid Enough to place them in a Place where every unit in your Backfield can shoot at them and that they will show up on trun 2 when everything should be still in good shape.Think about them showing on Turn 3-4 behined a building or other blocking terrain about 18" from my intended target.

That's assuming there is appropriate situation blocking terrain. And trying to get behind blocking terrain means you can always mishap into said terrain. DS has too many moving parts to be a reliable threat. I welcome my opponent to DS as many CC troops as they like.

And I don't need every unit to gun down 5 meqs with storm shields. Just a couple. It's an easy unit to cripple as well.

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
You both are assuming that I would Be Stupid Enough to place them in a Place where every unit in your Backfield can shoot at them and that they will show up on trun 2 when everything should be still in good shape.Think about them showing on Turn 3-4 behined a building or other blocking terrain about 18" from my intended target.

That's assuming there is appropriate situation blocking terrain. And trying to get behind blocking terrain means you can always mishap into said terrain. DS has too many moving parts to be a reliable threat. I welcome my opponent to DS as many CC troops as they like.

And I don't need every unit to gun down 5 meqs with storm shields. Just a couple. It's an easy unit to cripple as well.

Scatter, well that drop pod from turn one with a Locater Beacon solves then.
And you might not have the units avalible?
It come down to many things that can not be bought out here.
I have also have had it done to me, especialy vs and agresive army that leaves ungaurded units in the rear [like I have done] forgeting the VVs were still in reserve on turn 4, one good hand full of saves can make the diference. it only takes one or two moedls with AP3 Weapons to wreck a Long Fanges Pack quickly.

Probably the best marine assault army on paper is carcharodons... A LOT better than BA for considerably cheaper.
If Tyberos breaks a unit your 14pt scoring marines are getting 4 st 5 attacks on the charge each. Thats just silly.
You can pod, rhino rush or footslog. If footslogging just throw in a few ordeo xenos inquisitors with hammerhand or prescience and rad granades and you're sorted.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Probably the best marine assault army on paper is carcharodons... A LOT better than BA for considerably cheaper.
If Tyberos breaks a unit your 14pt scoring marines are getting 4 st 5 attacks on the charge each. Thats just silly.
You can pod, rhino rush or footslog. If footslogging just throw in a few ordeo xenos inquisitors with hammerhand or prescience and rad granades and you're sorted.

Arguably Templars. Rerolls to hit in challenges on a "standard" beatstick Chapter Master, as well as having better Troops in Crusader Squads.

That's also a good call if footslogging with an inquisitor. Plus templars get cheap meat shields. But the +1 attack on the charge combined with the +1s swings it for me. Carcharodons are what the Flesh Tearers should be. Fluff wise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The chainsword option makes tactical Carcharodons the same as initiates barring the rage and the strength buff tbf.

Templars get double Power Weapons. If you're going to be punching things with Tactical equivalents you want as many PWs as possible.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
You both are assuming that I would Be Stupid Enough to place them in a Place where every unit in your Backfield can shoot at them and that they will show up on trun 2 when everything should be still in good shape.Think about them showing on Turn 3-4 behined a building or other blocking terrain about 18" from my intended target.

That's assuming there is appropriate situation blocking terrain. And trying to get behind blocking terrain means you can always mishap into said terrain. DS has too many moving parts to be a reliable threat. I welcome my opponent to DS as many CC troops as they like.

And I don't need every unit to gun down 5 meqs with storm shields. Just a couple. It's an easy unit to cripple as well.

Scatter, well that drop pod from turn one with a Locater Beacon solves then.
And you might not have the units avalible?
It come down to many things that can not be bought out here.
I have also have had it done to me, especialy vs and agresive army that leaves ungaurded units in the rear [like I have done] forgeting the VVs were still in reserve on turn 4, one good hand full of saves can make the diference. it only takes one or two moedls with AP3 Weapons to wreck a Long Fanges Pack quickly.

You need Long Fangs to die long before turn 4. Reserves are the devil, and have been since 5th started. You want as many models on the board from turn 1 killing stuff. In general..

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
You both are assuming that I would Be Stupid Enough to place them in a Place where every unit in your Backfield can shoot at them and that they will show up on trun 2 when everything should be still in good shape.Think about them showing on Turn 3-4 behined a building or other blocking terrain about 18" from my intended target.

That's assuming there is appropriate situation blocking terrain. And trying to get behind blocking terrain means you can always mishap into said terrain. DS has too many moving parts to be a reliable threat. I welcome my opponent to DS as many CC troops as they like.

And I don't need every unit to gun down 5 meqs with storm shields. Just a couple. It's an easy unit to cripple as well.

Scatter, well that drop pod from turn one with a Locater Beacon solves then.
And you might not have the units avalible?
It come down to many things that can not be bought out here.
I have also have had it done to me, especialy vs and agresive army that leaves ungaurded units in the rear [like I have done] forgeting the VVs were still in reserve on turn 4, one good hand full of saves can make the diference. it only takes one or two moedls with AP3 Weapons to wreck a Long Fanges Pack quickly.

You need Long Fangs to die long before turn 4. Reserves are the devil, and have been since 5th started. You want as many models on the board from turn 1 killing stuff. In general..

Well sometines thing just don't work that way.

On Topice: We have been finding Vanguards are the best we have used, but we have not been using Codex: Space Marines Honor Guard.

Make them work out that way. When shooting, you choose what dies, not your opponent. That's why one reason Taudar are broken and CC armies stink up the joint.

Vanguards are not as offensive as they were in 5th, but probably the best thing to give them is meltabombs so they can terrorize MCs.

Honor guards are fantastic on paper, but suffer from mobilization problems. They end up being average in practice, imo. Which good for a CC unit in 6th. They too suffer from weaponry jumping from AP 4 to AP 2 .

The bottom line is that there is no marine CC unit I'd put in a TAC list.