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 PrinceRaven wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Look at it this way. More piracy = less sales. Less sales = increased price per unit. Increased price per unit = pirates making life harder for people who actually want to obey the law.

Why do you all think video games are so expensive, because over 75% of their users aren't paying for them and the studio wants to actually make money so they can make more video games and stay in business (shocking right?).

Ah well, there's my rant for the day.

More piracy = less sales of dataslates, more sales of models buffed by dataslate. Less sales of dataslates = Games Workshop abandons the dataslate idea and decides to release these supplemental rules in a less blatantly money-grabbing way.

Well this is GW, where they become more deranged as they become increasingly desperate.

Remember this is the company that decided that internet discounters were killing the hhhobby and forced every single online store from selling online.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 hyv3mynd wrote:
Five man squads that you can't add more to. That have to survive a minimum of 1 shooting phase and overwatch.

 

That also force the enemy to dedicate an entire squad to shoot at, so that at worst case scenario forces the hand of 5 separate units. Also most units won't kill 5 stealers in one turn if they GtG for a 3+ cover save then pop up next turn with Synapse, although I agree I they kill 3 of them off then the unit has practically no combat potential save to absorb over watch. I think the idea with these was to put a load of pressure onto enemy gun lines, where the safest place is in combat which H'n'R helps with. Not the most competitive build, but after what GW did the ENTIRE codex, what where you honestly expecting?

 

I see this argument coming up a lot, but I have to wonder how big an issue "forcing your enemy to fire at them" really is.  Most armies basic weapons have 24" or less range, with 24" being the average "netural zone" between deployment zones.  As most people don't deploy their entire forces directly onto the middle line (especially when cover might be farther back) you end up with lots of units that have 0 to shoot at first turn, excepting maybe a single heavy weapon per unit.  So "forcing your enemy to fire at them" doesn't seem like it's really imposing a high opportunity cost.  If anything, it looks like you're practically handing your opponent first blood.

 

That said, I agree with whoever it was (in possibly another thread!) that said that the Lictor Assassination Brood should have been Deathleaper plus 0-5 or 1-5 lictors.  Forcing 250 points in Lictors makes the formation not really worthwhile to me, even if it removes the FoC slot opportunity cost of both Deathleaper (who takes up precious Flyrant/Prime space) and Lictors (who take up Hive Guard, Venomthrope and Zoanthrope space).

 

Missed opportunities all over the place, imo.

Yeah I also don't understand the rationale of "It forces your opponent to shoot them".. Uh okay? That's the point of 40k is to kill your opponents units and this simply gives them MORE firepower than they would have on turn 1 to wipe out those genestealers.

It's not a missed opportunity, it's the chance to forge narratives such as "I just gave GW tons of cash to deploy 5 lictors and lose games!" or the wonderful narrative of "I deployed 25 genestealers in my opponents face and FORCED him to use flamers on me"

I'm happy ultramarines got a formation to wipe nids off the board quicker for no reason.

On the bright side, Tau have 30 inch range on their basic gun so you're not giving them any extra firepower by using a formation.
On the other hand, they also have easy access to ignores cover weapons...

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 eskimo wrote:
I'm not sure how they fit into a standard 40k game. I dunno the deal with turning up and saying,
"hey i'm using extra rules that i bought"

Either way, the first Dataslate looks like a big fat MEH i don't care.

They have new missions, but i have a single friend who plays 40k. So no use to me.

It is true that, if you don't really have anyone to play with, the dataslates aren't that useful.

Possibilities of the 'slate aren't overwhelming - you can infiltrate your stealers much closer, and use deathleaper without taking up an HQ slot, which makes him a lot more useful.

Yup that infiltrate thing is cool... Though I got a bad feeling about how it will be misread. FAQ on a Dataslate? sigh. Yup.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Look at it this way. More piracy = less sales. Less sales = increased price per unit. Increased price per unit = pirates making life harder for people who actually want to obey the law.

Why do you all think video games are so expensive, because over 75% of their users aren't paying for them and the studio wants to actually make money so they can make more video games and stay in business (shocking right?).

Ah well, there's my rant for the day.

Except this is a complete myth, because pirates most of the time never intended to buy the product in the first place; to imply they're lost sales is fallacial. The reason it is so prevalent is because prices are absurd to begin with, and these e-products typically offer very little new - I mean, how much is it for Cypher's dataslate again? Seriously.

Joe Schmoe might not want to spend £30-70 on FW's new IA book for the right to use one unit that he already paid an absurd amount of money for (lets not forget the fact that those books have a useful life expectancy of about 6 months at best) ; that's why a considerable number of my friends have torrented PDFs of them.

Video games are expensive for far better reasons than piracy. Most games on Steam aren't over £30, and Xbone/PS4/Wii U/Console games in general have a common trend in retail of being in the price bracket of £50-60, despite the fact that piracy on consoles is far, far rarer than on PC and considerably more difficult.

Hell, we should know by now that GW ups the prices on everything randomly to increase profit margins. So yeah, that's my own rant on a tangent over.

Does anyone else see the upshot to the 3 minimum stealer brood for no foc? It's made to either, wait in hiding until the last turn or, to be used as a single unit. The bonus there is that instead of a 15 man squad taking 15 overwatch. You have a 5 man squad taking overwatch while the other 10 remain unscathed. Those are the intents. Late game objective hunting, or 3 units functioning as 1.

That's what I see anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stealers of course, still suck. But ima try it.

Imnewherewheresthebathroom wrote:
Does anyone else see the upshot to the 3 minimum stealer brood for no foc? It's made to either, wait in hiding until the last turn or, to be used as a single unit. The bonus there is that instead of a 15 man squad taking 15 overwatch. You have a 5 man squad taking overwatch while the other 10 remain unscathed. Those are the intents. Late game objective hunting, or 3 units functioning as 1.

That's what I see anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stealers of course, still suck. But ima try it.

I've been having success with the hunting pack...keep Broody's pack small and increase the size of the other two squads...they can get in close enough to hide from other units in the opponents deployment zone so only the unit you're hunting can effectively react...it's about a 50/50 shot whether they will kill broody OR the other stealer squads...but PE makes a big difference on these smaller units.

The data slates are cool. Give the bugs some more tools that they need. As far as the piracy things goes, steal and use anything you want in a casual game. But don't try and use your stolen rules in a tournament. Its cheating.

It's not stealing, it's piracy. If I stole your car you wouldn't have a car any more, if I pirated your car you'd still have a car and I'd have one that looks just like it. Sharing is caring, man.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It's not stealing, it's piracy. If I stole your car you wouldn't have a car any more, if I pirated your car you'd still have a car and I'd have one that looks just like it. Sharing is caring, man.

GW aren't going to suffer from wooden legged, eye patched sea men. They're going to suffer from poor business choices.

I don't mind paying for cool new rules like Bel'kor, the Inquisition codex etc (and I have bought these) but when the price is unreasonable, I won't buy it. 5 formations and some fluff would be worth max £3 to me.

If I want fluff I can go to 40k lore wikis or a black library novel and get a way fuller experience.

Vote with your wallet.

wtnind wrote:
I don't mind paying for cool new rules like Bel'kor, the Inquisition codex etc (and I have bought these) but when the price is unreasonable, I won't buy it. 5 formations and some fluff would be worth max £3 to me.

If I want fluff I can go to 40k lore wikis or a black library novel and get a way fuller experience.

Vote with your wallet.

Don't you mean actually useable formations and not just formations?

barnowl wrote:

wtnind wrote:
I don't mind paying for cool new rules like Bel'kor, the Inquisition codex etc (and I have bought these) but when the price is unreasonable, I won't buy it. 5 formations and some fluff would be worth max £3 to me.

If I want fluff I can go to 40k lore wikis or a black library novel and get a way fuller experience.

Vote with your wallet.

Don't you mean actually useable formations and not just formations?

I wouldn't use those formations personally, its a long way from endless swarm isn't it. If they were apocalypse only then I'd only pay £1.50