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BA are over costed and underwhelming. The current SM codex is meh by most accounts, so up the prices and lower the benefits... Yeah. That's Codex BA right now. Just waiting for Martel to turn up for that point really.

Something with a decent save that performs well up close. Burst suits for Tau could be an option if you run FSE, as could Fire Warriors in Devifish. Bring carbines for pinning. The second option is risky as feth though, be warned.

Not a fan of Xenos? Ok, how about White scars Marine bikers? Or pod Marines, with just about any chapter tactic you want. Pods get in close, fwoosh, fwoosh, suddenly marines all over the shop. Bring some backfield support and you're sorted. Or both, ally two Space Marine armies together with bikes and pods. Not a fan of the SM codex? Take a look at the Forgeword stuff. Carcharadons might be your thing.

To be fair, I'm wondering about Raven Guard. They use more scouts and JP troops than other SM armies, might be more up your alley.

Close quarters guard cou- Wait, never mind.

Maybe 'Nid warrior spam could work, though a lot of people will say to stay away from it. Personally, I've never had experience with it; I'm just throwing ideas at you.

Actually, Guard could work. You take Veteran squads, give them Carapace for a 4+. You can take three special weapons, so load up on plasma, melta, whatever. Throw them in chimeras. Bring Hellhounds, Vendettas, Demolishers, etc for close support. Could work as a CQC shooting force.

Dark Eldar, and regular Eldar seem too squishy for your needs IMO. Guard and Broken blade (Firewarriors in Dfish) Tau run the risk of being caught in melee and brutalised that way. I'd suggest Raven Guard marines or white scars personally. Just my £0.02.

 MephistonLoD wrote:
Eh! What's yo beef wit Draigo!?

Yeah I was kinda waiting for that answer too, why only him! lol

 MephistonLoD wrote:
Eh! What's yo beef wit Draigo!?

Draigo, the Grand Master, Elite of Elites, Badass of Badasses, who was raised to power when he single-handedly defeated a Daemon Primarch. That's... completely freaking ridiculous, but if it wasn't so Mary Sueish, it would also be pretty awesome.

Draigo, the Lost Champion, who is cursed to wander hell in eternal damnation but, through supreme efforts of will, can return for short periods to save the world in its hour of need is a cool concept. A little repetitive by this point (The Legion of the Damned are basically the same thing), but not an inherently bad idea.

Draigo, the Master Tactitian who can always direct the best units in his army to the best location, and uses unorthodox tactics to sweep victory from the hands of the enemy (because seriously, Paladins scoring? Scoring units are meant to be the ones who can stay there, dig in, and hold that objective, while the Paladins' job is to sweep enemiesout of the way so the regular troops can secure it) isn't original (CREEED!), but again, it's an awesome character concept and it's nice that he's not the warrior equivalent of a squishy wizard for a change.

Draigo, the Complete Badass Who Rules The Chapter But Only Sometimes Shows Up And Had To Be Promoted In Absentia Because He Was Stuck In Hell, And Can Make Everything Do Exactly What He Wants It To... Well done, Ward. You've managed to make the literature equivalent of kedgeree. Haddock is nice. Creamy rice is good. Boiled eggs are pleasant. Trying to combine them all in the same dish just leaves you with something bland and tasteless that can't decide whether it's yellow or white and thinks it might like to be spicy at some point.

Auuurgh! I forgot that stupid assault transport crap; My veterans would never be able to assault from their chimeras!
Infuriating, I thought I was onto something with that one. It sounded pretty appealing with hellhounds/demolishers/similar in the mix.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:
Eh! What's yo beef wit Draigo!?

Draigo, the Grand Master, Elite of Elites, Badass of Badasses, who was raised to power when he single-handedly defeated a Daemon Primarch. That's... completely freaking ridiculous, but if it wasn't so Mary Sueish, it would also be pretty awesome.

Draigo, the Lost Champion, who is cursed to wander hell in eternal damnation but, through supreme efforts of will, can return for short periods to save the world in its hour of need is a cool concept. A little repetitive by this point (The Legion of the Damned are basically the same thing), but not an inherently bad idea.

Draigo, the Master Tactitian who can always direct the best units in his army to the best location, and uses unorthodox tactics to sweep victory from the hands of the enemy (because seriously, Paladins scoring? Scoring units are meant to be the ones who can stay there, dig in, and hold that objective, while the Paladins' job is to sweep enemiesout of the way so the regular troops can secure it) isn't original (CREEED!), but again, it's an awesome character concept and it's nice that he's not the warrior equivalent of a squishy wizard for a change.

Draigo, the Complete Badass Who Rules The Chapter But Only Sometimes Shows Up And Had To Be Promoted In Absentia Because He Was Stuck In Hell, And Can Make Everything Do Exactly What He Wants It To... Well done, Ward. You've managed to make the literature equivalent of kedgeree. Haddock is nice. Creamy rice is good. Boiled eggs are pleasant. Trying to combine them all in the same dish just leaves you with something bland and tasteless that can't decide whether it's yellow or white and thinks it might like to be spicy at some point.

This.

So you hate him because you can't comprehend his awesomeness. I see...

Aside; If I played Imperials, I'd love to convert my chimeras into motorized versions rather than mechanised.

Wheels!

(VERY Large picture of cool soviet era motorized surface-to-air missile carrier inside spoiler tags.)

 rabidguineapig wrote:
So you hate him because you can't comprehend his awesomeness. I see...

That's what I got out of that too.

Iron Hands or Salamanders drop pod army?

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
So you hate him because you can't comprehend his awesomeness. I see...

That's what I got out of that too.

I really hope you two are being sarcastic. In the most polite way possibly, Draigo's fluff is a blight on GW's history. I could overlook Finecrapst, unbalanced Codexes, Allies, 6th edition's randomness, price rises per annum, the IP stuff with Spots the Space Marine and even Chapterhouse. But allowing Draigo's fluff to be a thing? I'm sorry my good sir, but I cannot forgive that.

[/dramatics]

Back on topic, have you considered Forgeworld's Death Korps stuff? I'm not certain, but I think you might be able to pull something off with Grenediers/Engineers (not sure which) for some 4+ assualty goodness. I think. I'd really, really recommend talking to someone that knows about it or looking at the relevant IA books before buying anything.

That aside, guard could still work as a CQC force rather than CC. Something along the lines of

Company command, 4X Plasma guns, Plasma pistol

Veteran Squad, Carapace, 3X Plasma guns

Veteran Squad, Carapace, 3X Plasma guns

Veteran Squad, 3X Melta guns
(Optional Plasma pistols on these, mix and match as needed, all in Chimeras or Valks/Vendettas)

Hellhounds, Demolishers, whatever tickles your fancy. Possibly Stormtroopers. Get Kasrkin while they're still metal, best metals still made by GW IMO.

Ifurita wrote:Iron Hands or Salamanders drop pod army?

One problem I have with drop pods is that once the units have dropped, they lose most of their mobility and slow right down to footslogging, the slowest of the slow.

liquidjoshi wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
So you hate him because you can't comprehend his awesomeness. I see...

That's what I got out of that too.

I really hope you two are being sarcastic. In the most polite way possibly, Draigo's fluff is a blight on GW's history. I could overlook Finecrapst, unbalanced Codexes, Allies, 6th edition's randomness, price rises per annum, the IP stuff with Spots the Space Marine and even Chapterhouse. But allowing Draigo's fluff to be a thing? I'm sorry my good sir, but I cannot forgive that.

[/dramatics]

Back on topic, have you considered Forgeworld's Death Korps stuff? I'm not certain, but I think you might be able to pull something off with Grenediers/Engineers (not sure which) for some 4+ assualty goodness. I think. I'd really, really recommend talking to someone that knows about it or looking at the relevant IA books before buying anything.

That aside, guard could still work as a CQC force rather than CC. Something along the lines of

Company command, 4X Plasma guns, Plasma pistol

Veteran Squad, Carapace, 3X Plasma guns

Veteran Squad, Carapace, 3X Plasma guns

Veteran Squad, 3X Melta guns
(Optional Plasma pistols on these, mix and match as needed, all in Chimeras or Valks/Vendettas)

Hellhounds, Demolishers, whatever tickles your fancy. Possibly Stormtroopers. Get Kasrkin while they're still metal, best metals still made by GW IMO.

I think a CQC force could totally work; I'd probably go hardcore on flamers and melta to swamp in wounds as my tactic. Demolishers, Bane Wolves (+2 poison and AP3, yes please!).

I admit I have always found the usual opinions on BA's current codex state to be rather discouraging.


I am now eliminating all options EXCEPT;

Scout Marines.
CQC Guard.

I know you said you were staying away but:

NIDS!

Lots of winged and beast options for that high speed in your face style, moderate toughness and a great look.

You say you don't care about the meta and don't mind losing but you don't want to lose every game, thing is you need to check what your local group is like. If they play hard edge tourney lists you need to play Eldar/Tau/Daemons or you are gonna get stomped 9/10, they are simply the strongest contenders in that field right now. Play in a more casual environ and the meta doesn't matter and people will adjust up or down in terms of list and every race is totally viable so go nuts. I personally recommend the casual scene for maximum fun and enemy diversity, the hard tourney scene is not in a good place right now.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
So you hate him because you can't comprehend his awesomeness. I see...

That's what I got out of that too.

I really hope you two are being sarcastic. In the most polite way possibly, Draigo's fluff is a blight on GW's history. I could overlook Finecrapst, unbalanced Codexes, Allies, 6th edition's randomness, price rises per annum, the IP stuff with Spots the Space Marine and even Chapterhouse. But allowing Draigo's fluff to be a thing? I'm sorry my good sir, but I cannot forgive that.

[/dramatics]

Hahahaha I was definitely not being 100% serious. The fluff is definitely crazy, especially when you consider how it would work in game. It makes no sense that you should even be able to include him in your army without having something akin to a Deathstrike missile start timer to roll for the slight chance he might magically appear to help your army out, and then you basically picture him walking around the board casually slaughtering everything he gets near without any chance of being killed.

However, existing in a universe where Daemons come out of warp space, Guardsmen can survive a direct hit from a massive cannon just because Azrael is chilling with them, and Orks have vehicles that actually continue to function you have to take things a bit less seriously. Do you really need to go as far as "a blight on GW's history," I'd much rather eradicate the current OP Tau/Eldar codices from the face of the planet than have someone re-write a character's fluff because it's over-dramatic. Did Draigo steal your girlfriend or something? Damn, son.


In terms of this thread continuing to be helpful, I'd love to see a Guard army with wheeled Chimeras those pictures were awesome. I'd definitely wait a couple weeks and check out the new IG codex just to see where it sits in terms of competitiveness/new units/new models/etc... Guard can be sneakily good in defensive assault if you kit them out the right way, a big blob with power weapons can either tar pit or hack down some pretty nasty stuff just because they roll more dice. Unfortunately you have no big beastly CC units and Straken is a big help to CC units (I'm assuming you'd avoid him), but the options for customization are pretty much endless with guardsmen.

 Dunklezahn wrote:
I know you said you were staying away but:

NIDS!

Lots of winged and beast options for that high speed in your face style, moderate toughness and a great look.

You say you don't care about the meta and don't mind losing but you don't want to lose every game, thing is you need to check what your local group is like. If they play hard edge tourney lists you need to play Eldar/Tau/Daemons or you are gonna get stomped 9/10, they are simply the strongest contenders in that field right now. Play in a more casual environ and the meta doesn't matter and people will adjust up or down in terms of list and every race is totally viable so go nuts. I personally recommend the casual scene for maximum fun and enemy diversity, the hard tourney scene is not in a good place right now.

Are there flying options for troops? Winged warriors/shrikes?

I wasn't being sarcastic. The amount of butthurt you have towards Draigo makes me smile. I personally love him.

Sammy, there are options for winged warriors. I believe gargoyles are fast attacks. Tons of options for deep striking or outflanking. However, given that the codex is brand new, go to the tactics section and read through the discussion on the new Tyranids to get a feel for what has and has not worked out for other people.

Winged Warriors are codified as Shrikes these days, but I'm not sure on their stats.

Winged Rippers from Forge World are really nice kits, but they're fiddly to put together and creepily... happy.

MephistonLoD - I think I made my opinion clear. The character tries to be too many things at once, which just makes him overcrowded and kinda lame.

 MephistonLoD wrote:
I wasn't being sarcastic. The amount of butthurt you have towards Draigo makes me smile. I personally love him.

Die heretic! Die!
Draigo is one of the most awful characters ever written down in the history of literature. The sooner he gets either retconned out of existance or retconned into something more interesting less mary sue, the better.
I can't possibly see why anyone would even remotely like them.


As to the OP's question, I would like to recommend Iron Hands, Salamanders, Blood Angels or Space Wolves.

Topic shift hereby begins:

If I created an all Scout (plus vehicles) space marines list, how do you think I should arm my scouts and what chapter tactics would be most thematically appropriate?

Sentinels of terra with ranged weapons makes for some really nice shooting with BS3 twin linked at 12in.

Iron Hands and melee weapons gives me WS3, T4, 4+ FnP scouts with an extra attack that can pop out of land speeder storms.

They both seem like they'd work.

Take a look at the Iron Hands data slate. I believe their dreadnaughts get it will not die and you can drop pod them.

Thematically, it depends what your theme is.

CQC to H2H combat, I'd say that you should probably combine the two. Have Iron Hands as your primary detachment with Sentinels of Terra allies providing fire support.

 Ifurita wrote:
Sammy, there are options for winged warriors. I believe gargoyles are fast attacks. Tons of options for deep striking or outflanking. However, given that the codex is brand new, go to the tactics section and read through the discussion on the new Tyranids to get a feel for what has and has not worked out for other people.

After having a peek inside the new tyranid dex, I can say that the army isn't appealing to me.

I'm leaning towards the Imperial Guard CQC now; I honestly think that's the least potentially gimped of all considered options, and I'm looking forward to making some really nice soviet-style wheeled chimera and leman russ conversions. Hooray!

I shall have to wait for the [anticipated] IG update to really see what becomes of it.

If non-chaos/xenos, I'll reiterate the iron hands suggestion. Aesthetically cool, customization (cybernetics on your troops obviously), a great chapter tactic, no need for special characters, has a supplement, and are a durable power armor army with a recent codex. I like Furyou Miko's suggestion above.

 reiner wrote:
If non-chaos/xenos, I'll reiterate the iron hands suggestion. Aesthetically cool, customization (cybernetics on your troops obviously), a great chapter tactic, no need for special characters, has a supplement, and are a durable power armor army with a recent codex. I like Furyou Miko's suggestion above.

Bionics are totally cool!

 rabidguineapig wrote:

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 MephistonLoD wrote:

 rabidguineapig wrote:
So you hate him because you can't comprehend his awesomeness. I see...

That's what I got out of that too.

I really hope you two are being sarcastic. In the most polite way possibly, Draigo's fluff is a blight on GW's history. I could overlook Finecrapst, unbalanced Codexes, Allies, 6th edition's randomness, price rises per annum, the IP stuff with Spots the Space Marine and even Chapterhouse. But allowing Draigo's fluff to be a thing? I'm sorry my good sir, but I cannot forgive that.

[/dramatics]

Hahahaha I was definitely not being 100% serious. The fluff is definitely crazy, especially when you consider how it would work in game. It makes no sense that you should even be able to include him in your army without having something akin to a Deathstrike missile start timer to roll for the slight chance he might magically appear to help your army out, and then you basically picture him walking around the board casually slaughtering everything he gets near without any chance of being killed.

However, existing in a universe where Daemons come out of warp space, Guardsmen can survive a direct hit from a massive cannon just because Azrael is chilling with them, and Orks have vehicles that actually continue to function you have to take things a bit less seriously. Do you really need to go as far as "a blight on GW's history," I'd much rather eradicate the current OP Tau/Eldar codices from the face of the planet than have someone re-write a character's fluff because it's over-dramatic. Did Draigo steal your girlfriend or something? Damn, son.


In terms of this thread continuing to be helpful, I'd love to see a Guard army with wheeled Chimeras those pictures were awesome. I'd definitely wait a couple weeks and check out the new IG codex just to see where it sits in terms of competitiveness/new units/new models/etc... Guard can be sneakily good in defensive assault if you kit them out the right way, a big blob with power weapons can either tar pit or hack down some pretty nasty stuff just because they roll more dice. Unfortunately you have no big beastly CC units and Straken is a big help to CC units (I'm assuming you'd avoid him), but the options for customization are pretty much endless with guardsmen.

Just to clarify, I was being overly dramatic for comedic effect. However, Draigo's fluff is ridiculous, and fairly poorly written. Not that anything out of a codex deserves an award, but still...

I love that the CQC Guard might actually be a thing. Seriously, it's great. Only problem is that you'll need a fair few squads of Guard for it to work, four or five I would say. But if it does work, it'll be fantastic...
Seriously, I'd love to see wheeled Chimeras and stuff too.

SammyConnor wrote:

 reiner wrote:
If non-chaos/xenos, I'll reiterate the iron hands suggestion. Aesthetically cool, customization (cybernetics on your troops obviously), a great chapter tactic, no need for special characters, has a supplement, and are a durable power armor army with a recent codex. I like Furyou Miko's suggestion above.

Bionics are totally cool!

ForgeWorld has some new Iron Hands torsos and heads that just got released today. I'd be tempted to start some of them as well ... but I have all these Death Guard I need to finish.

The concept for any marine army I would have are renegade 'Truthists' that have very limited technology and thus have sparse power armour, incomplete growth of marines and only the lightest of vehicles [they stole a speeder schematic]-

500pt Test list was 3 squads of scouts in speeder storms (with multi meltas)- each with bolters and heavy bolter upgrade.

HQ was a forgemaster on bike with conversion beamer.


I am seriously drawn towards CQC guard, however. It's just a great idea that could work pretty well, especially if the guard carry heavy flamers and other template weapons.

Personally when I run CQC guard I run creed and alrahem and outflank two huge power blobs of guard

The hardest decision for me now is picking between Melee&Iron Hands or Ranged&Sentinels of Terra.

I want to focus on one, at least for now.

SammyConnor wrote:
The hardest decision for me now is picking between Melee&Iron Hands or Ranged&Sentinels of Terra.

I want to focus on one, at least for now.

Well iron hands are more durable, but sentinels are more damaging

When in doubt, attack!